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Why I'm giving up crafting.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Why I'm giving up crafting.

ScarletBlaze's Avatar


ScarletBlaze
06.03.2013 , 10:50 AM | #21
I am going to bring up a game people love to bash but going to do it anyways.

In SWG we were able to craft pretty much everything and if a schematic drop in one say Exar Kun and you couldn't use it you either sold it or gave it to a crafter that used it.

The items at first you couldn't trade but they changed that and you were able to sell or trade them and guess what it still had people wanting to do things like Exar Kun, Nightsister, etc. It never took away from them

I don't see if they allow the same things here it would actually stop people from doing them because a lot of people enjoy doing them.

It just makes the community work together as a whole which is a good thing not a bad. There are items on that I can craft on my crafter I wish was not bind on pickup so I can craft them for my friends.
A southern girl is a girl who knows full well that she can open a door for herself but prefers for the gentleman to do it because it demonstrates a sense of respect. Current Guild Roleplay: Redemption: The battle of Xa Fel https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...ps/r-1rAjOuo30

Thundergulch's Avatar


Thundergulch
06.03.2013 , 10:51 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by lilmanweddle View Post
Then I fail to see your point.

The guy doing Flashpoints with his 3 mates shouldn't have access to the same gear as people who run Ops? I've never understood the attitude.
They have access, all they need to do is run ops to get the gear.
If they don't run ops, then there is no reason for them to have the gear, as it's not needed to complete FP's.

psandak's Avatar


psandak
06.03.2013 , 11:59 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by mike_is_valid View Post
End game gear should be craftable as well in my opinion. If the gear drops are the only motivation for raiding and the great teamwork and team skill required for the raid doesn't motivate, then something is wrong here. I had the impression that the success expirience as a raiding team is the motivation here.
The motivation for raiding is both working as a team AND getting gear - that is how an operations group progresses.

- if you have the best gear available but do not work as a team you fail to progress
- if you work amazingly well as a team but do not have to gear necessary to kill bosses you fail to progress.

The two motivations go hand-in-hand.
Quote: Originally Posted by caronome View Post
I agree with you except that it can never happen in any non-Sandbox game. The best they can do is give certain slots to crafters. I don't know of an MMO that allow you to craft BiS for most slots that is not a sandbox.

If you could buy BiS then a lot of the motivation and incentive for people to run ops would go away.
Three expansions ago in WoW (The Burning Crusade), Blizzard tried to give crafters the chance to craft BiS gear. The problem was that the gear was BoP and so only the very dedicated - the most hardcore players - could craft the gear; they would jump from profession to profession with each content patch to get the crafted BiS gear for their class.

Quote: Originally Posted by asbalana View Post
So yes, crafting is still somewhat useful and depending on server, if you ara a lucky puppy you can still make credits. There are also only a few plays where you can make money without the gods of luck resting on your shoulders. But all in all the profit / money making ability in crafting has significantly decreased for most and the useful items that can be crafted (especially for players in the leveling process) has been severly limited.
I completely disagree. Luck has nothing to do with making money using crafting crew skills.

I play on The Harbinger server and make blue quality item modifications (armoring, mods, augments, working towards hilts and enhancements) and they sell constantly. And on average I net 120% profit: materials run well less than 5k and they sell for between 10k and 15k. And this has been consistent both pre and post 2.0; pre-2.0 I sold grade 22/level 49 stuff at the same cost and profit as I sell grade 28/level 53-55 stuff.

My point is that the best available is not always the most profitable. Take a step back, look at markets that are not in the best available and I guarantee you will find items that sell consistently and persistently.

As for making best available for oneself... I have played many MMOs and the fact is that in many, if not most of them, the best crafted gear is designed to be entry level to end-game content. I have simply accepted this truth and moved on. I have further accepted that if I do not raid I do not need the best gear available; second or even third best is more than good enough to handle anything outside of raiding.

Quote: Originally Posted by lilmanweddle View Post
Then I fail to see your point.

The guy doing Flashpoints with his 3 mates shouldn't have access to the same gear as people who run Ops? I've never understood the attitude.
it is a matter of unintended consequences. As stated above, motivation to succeed in end-game content is both working as a team AND getting better gear. If you provide a method of getting the best gear available other than raiding you effectively remove half the motivation for raiding in the first place.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
06.03.2013 , 01:59 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by lilmanweddle View Post
Why not? If people have the patience to make it and the money to buy it.

Locking the best gear to operation level seems backwards to me, allow people to specialise and excel in other areas and you'd have a happier player base.
I believe that the changes made to crafting were to slow down how quickly players could obtain gear.

Prior to 2.0, I had most of the key grade 27 dread guard schematics unlocked for Armstech, Artifice and Cybertech. In addition to doing crafting and making credits, I was taking the crits and gearing up my alts. I actually geared up 3 level 50s in almost full Best in Slot this way.

Meanwhile, on my main, I didn't raid quite as much, anymore. The game slowed down for me.

But when 2.0 dropped, I found myself running FPs regularly, as well as Ops. To date, I've only gotten one toon (mostly) fully geared up, and two others in mostly 69s. Had the grade 31 gear (Underworld) been craftable and MMGs more readily available, I can pretty much guarantee that most of my toons would be geared by now.

Like it or hate it, this decision from Bioware resulted in slowing down gear progression, requiring players spend more time in-game to get that gear.

If you don't like raiding, but want Best in Slot gear, then I suppose this affects you negatively. But when 2.2 is released, at least you'll be able to craft Underworld gear.

dinwitt's Avatar


dinwitt
06.04.2013 , 08:55 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Thundergulch View Post
Wrong, making the top tier gear available to everyone makes end game raiding useless.
The whole point of end game raiding is to obtain the best gear available, not for everyone and their brother to buy it off the GTN.
Progression raiding gets you vehicles, pets, titles, achievements, and set bonuses. Letting people craft the highest tier doesn't change any of that.

Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
I believe that the changes made to crafting were to slow down how quickly players could obtain gear.
Absolutely. I'm at the point where I am looking to get 4 Underworld token drops just so I can get marginally better enhancements. Its an absolute waste of the gear and extremely aggravating that Bioware intentionally chose to reintroduce the Rakata optimization grind.

Thundergulch's Avatar


Thundergulch
06.04.2013 , 10:19 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by dinwitt View Post
Progression raiding gets you vehicles, pets, titles, achievements, and set bonuses. Letting people craft the highest tier doesn't change any of that..
I know that, but still the driving force behind raiding is getting that gear drop. And of course the sense of accomplishment from completing the raid.
I don't raid for pets or titles or achievements, if I get them, cool.
My point is, if everyone was able to be fully geared BEFORE entering the raid for the first time, they would be less likely to run it more than a couple of times because the content would become trivial and usually not very difficult.. and then the forums would fill up again with complaints that there is no content because they already completed it in record time.

Vanisher's Avatar


Vanisher
06.04.2013 , 10:37 AM | #27
I do agree end game crafting has flaws to it. The Mass Gens sell for 400k-500k so to make a mod or enhancement when you can just run ops or flashpoints to get 69 gear it make take longer to get your BiS.

I have player other MMOs where crafters had more that they could craft like combat pets or mounts. Or like in Star Wars galaxies house decor. I have admit decorating a guild hall that we used to hold meetings at was kinda cool. As well we used the guild hall as storage for mats and items that we have away to guildies we used to have backpacks with cool speeders and gear to help level Low level toons as we recruited to our guild. Now I am not saying bring player housing to the game but let us be able to decorate our ships. Maybe as a reward for doing Eternity Vault say 50 times you get a SOA mini statue to display on your ship and maybe after doing KP so many times a KaragaS mini statue and maybe thru the cartel market be able to buy a shelf or bookcase to display these statues for those hardcore players that want that. Though player housing and building player cities would be cool if they tied it into world pvp some how that would make cities interesting. Being able to decorate our ships our way makes feel like we own our ship and that it's really ours. Plus it's a way to show if achievements that could be another interesting loot drops from ops or rewards for completing so many ops etc.

I do agree crafting in this game is second class and now maybe because that its treated that way maybe that's why so many people left the game. There is a large group of players that love to craft and in these forms all you get are the craft haters so its safe to say that the crafting type players have left the game maybe this is an opportunity for bioware to win back subs.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
06.04.2013 , 10:57 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Thundergulch View Post
...

My point is, if everyone was able to be fully geared BEFORE entering the raid for the first time, they would be less likely to run it more than a couple of times because the content would become trivial and usually not very difficult.. and then the forums would fill up again with complaints that there is no content because they already completed it in record time.
I think this is a good analysis as well.

When you overgear content it tends to become too easy and thereby boring. Slowing down obtaining best in slot gear would then make the end game last longer.

And for those that need to overgear content to be able to run it, 72 gear will be craftable in 2.2.

Vanisher's Avatar


Vanisher
06.04.2013 , 11:50 AM | #29
Fair enough about how the end game gear is dropped but maybe then bio ware should allow more schematic shells to drop for crafters or sell the schemes in the cartel market or something because with the cartel market all the cool armour and outfits you purchase through the cartel which doesn't allow much for crafters to make and sell. I think if bioware should introduced more things like player housing and player created cities as well as being able to decorate your ship they could sell more stuff thru the cartel market or have crafters craft more stuff and make then more viable.

Also with player housing which would introduce more things to do in game while waiting for more new content to come out. Te crafters could make the houses etc which is more stuff they could craft making them happier and attracting more players to the game. They could create fresh planets strictly for player housing tie in open world pvp into the game for control of these planets being fought back and forth between the two sides even creating more pvp content which players have been asking for.

When this game first came out there were millions if players signed up I remeber waiting to get onto the servers people did cry for player housing and better space and bioware did neither and so many millions left the game this game before it came out was labeled the WOW killer so much hype came around it but the game didn't perform maybe because some cool in game content like this never was in the game MMOs need to evolve to be new and fresh progressive to make it worth while to play player created cities gave more content for players and gave guilds another reason to play and work together I think it's something worth looking into and would create a market for crafting having it all player made.

SWALPEG's Avatar


SWALPEG
06.04.2013 , 06:43 PM | #30
BiS gear should be craftable or otherwise obtainable (other than buying) without the need to raid. Raids are EGC and should first and foremost be about CONTENT. Making a game is first about quality content. A mmo should have expansive EGC that has great replay value. That is not to say that Raids should not have rewards as far as gear goes, but that raid gear should be unique. Something special that says I completed an extra challenge. My answer is simple. Look at the PVP model.( I will mention that I do not PVP seriously, but looking at the system they use in SWTOR I think this will work. PVPer's feel free to tell me if i am way off base here.) In SWTOR , PVP has its own stats that modify how effective you are. Why not make special Gear that effect a special stat for Raids. These could effectively be carbon copies of BiS Gear but be uncraftable and unobtainable through anything but raids. This would mean those that craft but do not raid can still feel powerful and happy in PvE while raiders would still have something to work towards. This would also mean that even with BiS gear the Raid would still be challenging. In any event, that is my two sense on the issue. Ignore it if you will.