Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

The Republic - Not quite as nice a group as you'd think!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
The Republic - Not quite as nice a group as you'd think!

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
05.26.2013 , 02:49 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
But again, I don't think this discussion can be reduced to statements and evidence. I think the universe itself with its different beliefs about the Force is encouraging you not to rely on that, and make your own decision as people in-universe would have done.
Of course, and I don't want to make a definitive statement reagrding that. To me, it seems that the Force encompasses of both the Living Force and the Unifying Force theories.

Regardless, I won't make a definitive statement. I think the Force has two sides, but it ultimately comes down to what you do with your life. Your choices inevitably decide your path, the 'dark side' being the more alluring and 'addictive' (for lack of a better word) side, and the 'light side' being the more difficult path.

That's just sides, though. Regarding the other beliefs within the two, I can only say that I would agree with Qui-Gon Jinn.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
05.26.2013 , 02:56 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Of course, and I don't want to make a definitive statement reagrding that. To me, it seems that the Force encompasses of both the Living Force and the Unifying Force theories.

Regardless, I won't make a definitive statement. I think the Force has two sides, but it ultimately comes down to what you do with your life. Your choices inevitably decide your path, the 'dark side' being the more alluring and 'addictive' (for lack of a better word) side, and the 'light side' being the more difficult path.

That's just sides, though. Regarding the other beliefs within the two, I can only say that I would agree with Qui-Gon Jinn.
Mmmm... but I like having opinions, and defending them.

But yeah, I agree that the Jedi have the best understanding of the Force. But the Jedi themselves have a very diverse set of beliefs, however they all follow similar lines.

I think thought that this is one of the few subjects, that regardless of what the creators intended, that has no definitive answer, and can be decided for ourselves.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
05.26.2013 , 03:02 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Mmmm... but I like having opinions, and defending them.

But yeah, I agree that the Jedi have the best understanding of the Force. But the Jedi themselves have a very diverse set of beliefs, however they all follow similar lines.

I think thought that this is one of the few subjects, that regardless of what the creators intended, that has no definitive answer, and can be decided for ourselves.
Agreed.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

Remissus's Avatar


Remissus
05.26.2013 , 03:58 PM | #24
Wow! Lots more replies to this than I expected when I posted it this morning.

As someone whose familiarity with the deeper part of Force lore is in passing only, I really appreciated getting to read the Unifying/Living Force 'debate' here. Lots of interesting stuff.

Worth noting that I was never suggesting that the Empire -wasn't- guilty of equally bad atrocities; I just didn't think that, with the tone of what limited things I knew about this era's setting, the Old Republic would be so Sith-like in behavior. I should definitely go watch those history videos that one of you linked- Any book suggestions as well for someone who didn't have access to the KOTOR I or II games?
Rems Issus - Sniper - Imperial Intelligence, Grey Squad
[RP/PVE] [Collector's Edition Owner] [Begeren Colony]

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
05.26.2013 , 04:06 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Remissus View Post
Any book suggestions as well for someone who didn't have access to the KOTOR I or II games?
Steam. No but really if you have the time, and your not put off by the graphics, these games are worth a try. Truly excellent RPGs.

But in terms of books I would suggest the Star Wars: The Old Republic Encyclopedia - its basically what it says on the tin, 'The Definitive Guide to the Epic Conflict.' Packed full of Lore surrounding TOR and touches on events of KOTOR and KOTOR II as well as interesting insight into the future of the story as a whole.

maxetius's Avatar


maxetius
05.26.2013 , 04:35 PM | #26
Quote:
The Living Force. Considering that the Unifying Force theory was discredited. I believe Yoda also disagreed with the 'Unifying Force" theory.
He 'disagreed' with it because Unifying force was a theory proposed by writers that was rejected by George Lucas because he wanted to keep the dichotomy from the movies. Among other things, he also desired the death of Anakin Solo due to the similarities he shared with Anakin Skywalker and insisted that the Yuuzhan Vong be star-trek aliens. When they were originally proposed to be the original Sith race twisted over eons, and were originally supposed to be dark-side force wielders, as opposed to some random aliens who the force rejected because they were teh evilz.


In other words, the EU and George Lucas have always been at odds, he personally never would have allowed the light-sided Sith that we see in TOR, as that would have destroyed the good vs evil red vs blue dichotomy that he constructed.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
05.26.2013 , 04:39 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by maxetius View Post
He 'disagreed' with it because Unifying force was a theory proposed by writers that was rejected by George Lucas because he wanted to keep the dichotomy from the movies. Among other things, he also desired the death of Anakin Solo due to the similarities he shared with Anakin Skywalker and insisted that the Yuuzhan Vong be star-trek aliens. When they were originally proposed to be the original Sith race twisted over eons, and were originally supposed to be dark-side force wielders, as opposed to some random aliens who the force rejected because they were teh evilz.


In other words, the EU and George Lucas have always been at odds, he personally never would have allowed the light-sided Sith that we see in TOR, as that would have destroyed the good vs evil red vs blue dichotomy that he constructed.
Perhaps being a little harsh on Lucas. There is definitely some conflict between ideas but with such a mysterious concept as the Force that's bound to happen.

However while Lucas may make it that there is a distinction, he's not afraid to blur the lines e.g. Ventress. Not a Lucas creation no, but he did play a significant part in TCW and therefore her story. He may not have accepted it but its got the firm Lucas stamp of approval.

Bytemite's Avatar


Bytemite
05.26.2013 , 05:16 PM | #28
Amusingly, despite the way the alignment system rates them, I'm not so sure that the light side Sith in game are light side so much as not as bad as they COULD be. I mean they still brutally kill people, they just also try to get around killing people sometimes by making up practical sounding excuses and playing chess and mindgames with the other Sith.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NobleDemon

(Traditional tvtropes warning: You might spend hours on here if you click too many links. Beware)

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
05.26.2013 , 08:20 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Remissus View Post
So I was reading the "Journal of Master Gnost-Dural" that came with my Collector's Edition last night, and I came across this tidbit on page 52:



Now correct me if I'm wrong but... isn't this -genocide-? Korriban was left completely lifeless; That means that unarmed men, women, and children who may not have even had anything to -do- with the Hyperspace War were murdered in cold blood after the actual fighting was over. And that one line is the only mention of it! There's nothing preceding or written after it to suggest that Master Gnost-Dural feels even a hint of regret at the loss of life, and in fact, after that one line I posted it is never mentioned again.

I'm pretty sure saying that "Well they did x and y to us, so it was fair!" is just not an appropriate excuse here. War or not, a group claiming to stand for justice and democracy should not be committing wholesale slaughter. I'll admit I was a bit surprised to read this in the journal- So what other instances of meditated evil by the Republic have I missed?!
You're assuming there where unarmed men, women and children on Korriban. In game, I never got the impression of any of those being on Korriban.

And here's a group who's sole purpose is to basically kill everyone else who stands in their way or at the very least, enslave them.

And outside of a players character, we've seen nothing to suggest anyone would be lightside or against the Sith way of life, when put on the planet. Infact, you're told being lightside will kill you on the planet, and everyone else is basically shown as evil, or evil yet cowardly.

One could say that to survive on Korriban, one has to become evil, but then, why spare them? Also, you're at war. Many other wars would be avoided if you finish off your enemies once and for all, instead of leaving a few left alive to rebuild
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Bytemite's Avatar


Bytemite
05.26.2013 , 09:48 PM | #30
Korriban reminded me of depictions of British boarding schools. Take that as you will.