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The BattleZone Reboot Round 1 Match 08: Quinlan Vos vs. Savage Opress

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
The BattleZone Reboot Round 1 Match 08: Quinlan Vos vs. Savage Opress

Canino's Avatar


Canino
05.26.2013 , 07:54 AM | #21
We should also note his skill in psychometry. He could, in theory (depending on the location) hide and probe Opress's brain for weaknesses. He could also get hold of any thing Opress had used from his lightsaber to a piece of armor and find a weakness. While it isn't very effective in battle, he could slice the saber staff in half, then use force cloak to get away, then use psychometry to find the weakness. Or simply hide and use psychometry directly on Opress.
STATEMENT: I'm just a simple assassin...I mean bodyguard, master. You have nothing to fear.
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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
05.26.2013 , 08:29 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Canino View Post
He would get knocked down, but his physicality would allow him to get up far faster. This, coupled with his lighting would put a damper on Savage. His lighting is a question, but I'm confident he would use it. He used it in torture against his enemy, why wouldn't he use it against an active enemy?

The topic a Vaapad is a debate though. In his spare with Windu, he found himself using Vaapad subconsciously. He was trained in it by the co-creator during his time a double agent. Vos also would get into the heat of battle, and this is what truly powers Vaapad. He could couple his Vaapad with his mastery of ataru, his elements of Makashi, and a defense of Shien.

And you are wrong with Dooku not teaching him, or are at least according to Wookie.
He was powerful in the Force, and was personally taught be Dooku. He could also hide his presence as seen in the assassination of Senator Viento and he was very adept in Force Cloak. He could strike from the shadows at Opress and could effectively hide his presence from him.
Concerning lightning, its problematic. Yes Vos was taught by Dooku but he uses lightining before his training, and as a Jedi! To me this makes little sense and after a quick search it seems its even more complex than I thought. See this Wookiee talk thread.

I would agree with that many of them are saying that Vos' use of lightining prior to him being trained, and the lightining itself flowing from the ground, is a violation of canon. Or at least it cannot be consider Force lightning but
Electric judgement of something or another. Basically it makes no sense and Vos has never used it in battle. Given that it is essentially a Sith move (and this is Jedi Vos post turning to the dark side right?) so I doubt he would use it. He also was apparently under the influence of rage and hatred and given that he has not been trained the move must be instinctive. Not something he can deliberately use in battle unless he falls under the influence of the dark side which is unlikely to happen.

I also doubt Dooku trained him in lightsaber combat, not only did he usually keep such secrets from his apprentices but to assume so is pure speculation as we have no evidence to suggest it is the case.

So yeah, I would vote lightning as a non-factor. I think its too much of an assumption to say he can use it in battle and do so deliberately. Also remembering that he has never done so before.

If he uses Vaapad, the same argument I used above applies, Opress can counter it with Force powers or simply overwhelming force. And any strikes Vos lands can be endured. And Shien, if he actually wields it (were are you getting this from exactly - not saying that in an accusatory way just curious given it doesn't seem to be on his Wookiee page) is not particular effective against anything other than blaster fire in terms of defense and particularly weak against a single opponent. In fact I think that was the form favoured by Adi, and well, you know the rest. Makashi will also act against him, as it is ineffective against power attacks, which may have been partly the reason why Dooku was knocked back so easily. And then of course Vaapad and Ataru have a weak/non-existent defense, which Opress will be pushing him on.

And finally, in a heated battle, against a highly aggressive and relentless duelist, the chances that Vos will have time to cloak his presence with the Force are very slim indeed. Any attempt to do so would require a deal of concentration which would only lead to Vos exposing himself to attack. Evident from the fact he has never applied this tactic in battle.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
05.26.2013 , 08:34 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Canino View Post
We should also note his skill in psychometry. He could, in theory (depending on the location) hide and probe Opress's brain for weaknesses. He could also get hold of any thing Opress had used from his lightsaber to a piece of armor and find a weakness. While it isn't very effective in battle, he could slice the saber staff in half, then use force cloak to get away, then use psychometry to find the weakness. Or simply hide and use psychometry directly on Opress.
Psychometry can only be used to pick up impressions and information about objects, not to probe minds or find weaknesses. If he say gets hold of Opress saber all he'll see is Opress killing tons of Jedi and will likely get scared and try to run away.

One also has to be in contact with the object and I'm not sure it works on people. But again, it was be next to useless as all Vos would gain is knowledge of its past and perhaps some insight into Opress' pent up rage - which will not be very helpful. Also note the following from Wookieepedia: 'This skill was useful for tracking though it was not useful in open battle and would fail to render useful information at times.'

It will only get Vos killed or inflict Vos with Opress' rage which will render his refined forms useless.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
05.26.2013 , 10:09 AM | #24
I guess I should clear up a few things here.

First, the battle takes place on the Devaron Temple Grounds, where Savage killed those two Jedi.

Second, Vos can use Vaapad while unarmed. Vaapad's inspiration came from the Vaapad of Sarapin, a creature that attacks with several tentacles at multiple angles at lightning speed. We see this translate to lightsaber combat (see Mace Windu vs. Darth Sidious), and unarmed combat (when Mace Windu punches a man six times before the guy can blink).

Third, Vos can use Force lightning, but as seen in the duel with Volffe Kaarko, his application of the ability is weak. Though this could be a side-effect of his mental state at the time.

Fourth, Count Dooku did teach Quinlan Vos some elements of Makashi. What better Makashi teacher can you have, right?

Fifth, Quinlan Vos often wielded his lightsaber back-handed, indicating some training in Shien.

And finally, Quinlan Vos was trained by Count Dooku to tap into the darker abilities of psychometry to "read" the living. I made this, and other factors, abundantly clear in the OP.

Carry on with the debate.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
05.26.2013 , 10:15 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
And finally, Quinlan Vos was trained by Count Dooku to tap into the darker abilities of psychometry to "read" the living. I made this, and other factors, abundantly clear in the OP.

Carry on with the debate.
Not gonna lie I kinda skim read that... too eager to get into the battle!.

Thank you for that insight though, I shall go over it and give it a proper read now.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
05.26.2013 , 11:19 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Not gonna lie I kinda skim read that... too eager to get into the battle!.

Thank you for that insight though, I shall go over it and give it a proper read now.
To be honest, it's not my best work. I kinda rushed through it. But I assure you that the next one will be very detailed.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

YoshiRaphElan's Avatar


YoshiRaphElan
05.26.2013 , 11:42 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
(when Mace Windu punches a man six times before the guy can blink)
Fast punches.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
05.26.2013 , 12:00 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by YoshiRaphElan View Post
Fast punches... didn't work out.

I think we should also remember that combat and just about everything else in the original CW series is grossly exaggerated. There is no possible chance that Windu could have performed so well against those super battle droids else he would have soloed them all in the Geonosian arena.

So yes, I'd take it with a heavy heaping of salt.

YoshiRaphElan's Avatar


YoshiRaphElan
05.26.2013 , 12:38 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Fast punches... didn't work out.

I think we should also remember that combat and just about everything else in the original CW series is grossly exaggerated. There is no possible chance that Windu could have performed so well against those super battle droids else he would have soloed them all in the Geonosian arena.

So yes, I'd take it with a heavy heaping of salt.
Yeah, I know. But I just remember watching the Windu punching everything scene at eight years old and rolling all over the floor and laughing. It was just too epic! But you're right, not too practical against Savage.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
05.26.2013 , 02:58 PM | #30
I can agree that hand-to-hand combat wouldn't go in Vos' favor. I was merely asserting that Vos could defend himself while unarmed. How long is up for debate.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus