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Are MMOs fulfilling their potential?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Are MMOs fulfilling their potential?

Machine-Elf's Avatar


Machine-Elf
05.13.2013 , 10:53 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Omisri View Post
In regards to immersion, I do think that they are getting better.... slightly. Mainly due to the times moving forward and graphics becoming better along with being able to fit more into a tiny space (i.e. More sound, music quality, graphics, trigger points etc). However, I do feel that in terms of it being an MMO as a whole, they are going backwards.

I think that it just boils down to my personal tastes and being tainted by the original version of SWG. But a majority of these AAA MMO's all come down to it being some sort of a grind and dead end at end game. I felt that GW2 had potential with WvWvW and winning giving your server a bonus to attributes (Although I never got past level 30 before I left), SWG with planetary control, EQ2 back when I played it had some sort of zone control when the level cap was level 80 (pvp area.. forget what it was called).

But basically I think a lot of MMO's have settled for a gear grind at end game to keep you playing with one or two new ops / raids every so often that's completed as it comes out, rather than be a little more creative and give something for the community to control that can change on a daily basis (example, swg had player housing, cities. other games as above).

When the community are given something they can control, together (You know, what an MMO should be about!). I think that opens up all sorts. Don't get me wrong there are games out there that do this, some fail, some win. But rather than build on it... Developers become lazy
Yes, I agree the current conception of end-game is detrimental to MMOs in general.

UltimateKrucible's Avatar


UltimateKrucible
05.13.2013 , 10:58 AM | #12
No. But things are looking up with continued improvements.

On the sandbox front, I have high hopes for World of Darkness (but there's a two-year wait, apparently) and the DayZ standalone will be worth checking out.

On the theme park front, I think SWTOR is doing a pretty good job so far and is on an upward curve, and there's other good titles out there - Secret World springs to mind.
. Shine on, you crazy pixel.

Funny post! The nine circles of SW:TOR PvP hell

XantosCledwin's Avatar


XantosCledwin
05.13.2013 , 11:00 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Machine-Elf View Post
I'm not sure computing power and network capacity aren't up to the task already.
Regardless, I'd like to hear about some of the things *you* would like to see implemented.
the fact is.... we have the technology and capability to program a viable artificial intelligence that is completely self aware today, this instant. We do not because people are actually sane enough to realize that if such a thing were actually programed it would think to itself "Self, these pitiful meat bags are ruining this planet, I could take care of it so much better." said in HK-51's exact tone of voice. Or for more emphasis just watch Terminator for relevant details on why we don't create a viable artificial intelligence.
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branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
05.13.2013 , 11:01 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by UltimateKrucible View Post
No. But things are looking up with continued improvements.

On the sandbox front, I have high hopes for World of Darkness (but there's a two-year wait, apparently
/tangent

If WoD is sandboxy like EVE, that will be a big mistake IMO. However, I doubt WoD MMO will ever see the light of day (no matter how much I would like to play it).

Quote: Originally Posted by XantosCledwin View Post
[...] just watch Terminator for relevant details on why we don't create a viable artificial intelligence.
We can only hope you are trying to be funny.

Vis-Tecum's Avatar


Vis-Tecum
05.13.2013 , 11:02 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Machine-Elf View Post
Yup! Now imagine they were incorporated into MMOs, except to much greater effect (since they could keep being tinkered with/updated).
um isn't that what swtor is doing and people like you constantly complain about every day on the forum???

music queued from area or situation - check
npc reaction to choices - check
adaptive conversation - check
conversation interrupt - check [just not done the same as ME]
player choice - check

I don't know what you mean by voice activated emotes / abilities... do you mean if I say jump into my mic then my character jumps???

again this comes down to the same as most complaints on this board... its there just not the exact way you want it
Just go riding right by me on the crest of the new wave

XantosCledwin's Avatar


XantosCledwin
05.13.2013 , 11:15 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
We can only hope you are trying to be funny.
Oh god, now you've gone and awoken the beast.

Okay, I don't suppose you know who Isaac Asimov is? But he basically single handedly defined the concept of artificial intelligence as it is understood by most modern science fiction fans. He also came up with three laws that would ensure that any Artificial Intelligence can never betray the human species as an entity... not just individual humans, but the whole damn lot of us.

Unfortunately, most of Sci Fi has categorically rejected these laws or attempts to subvert them. Actually hardwiring (in an irrevocable way) these laws into a fully sentient brain capable of learning and adapting to situations that it finds itself in, would prove problematic at best. Whose to say that the programed thought entity couldn't just learn how to reprogram itself?

So basically every cautionary tale such as Terminator that you read about or watch on TV is exactly why we don't create artificial intelligence. Because even if we programed the laws of Asimov into it, the programing would ultimately fail the instant the artificial intelligence discovered that such programing was present in its existence and sought ways to countermand that programing.
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Machine-Elf's Avatar


Machine-Elf
05.13.2013 , 11:18 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Vis-Tecum View Post
um isn't that what swtor is doing and people like you constantly complain about every day on the forum???

music queued from area or situation - check
npc reaction to choices - check
adaptive conversation - check
conversation interrupt - check [just not done the same as ME]
player choice - check

I don't know what you mean by voice activated emotes / abilities... do you mean if I say jump into my mic then my character jumps???

again this comes down to the same as most complaints on this board... its there just not the exact way you want it
Adaptive conversations are not a feature in SWTOR. Neither is the conversation interrupt system.
If player choices and subsequent npc reactions to these are implemented in SWTOR at the moment, they are done in such a bare-boned manner so as to be nearly imperceptible. And music does trigger automatically in some instances, but these are few and far between.

XantosCledwin's Avatar


XantosCledwin
05.13.2013 , 11:21 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Machine-Elf View Post
Adaptive conversations are not a feature in SWTOR. Neither is the conversation interrupt system.
If player choices and subsequent npc reactions to these are implemented in SWTOR at the moment, they are done in such a bare-boned manner so as to be nigh imperceptible. And music does trigger automatically in some instances, but these are few and far between.
compounding the issue is that anyone genre savvy in tabletop RPG's while playing Star Wars the Old Republic can observe the almost blatant Railroading that goes on in almost every PC-NPC interraction.
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Vis-Tecum's Avatar


Vis-Tecum
05.13.2013 , 11:21 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by XantosCledwin View Post
Oh god, now you've gone and awoken the beast.

Okay, I don't suppose you know who Isaac Asimov is? But he basically single handedly defined the concept of artificial intelligence as it is understood by most modern science fiction fans. He also came up with three laws that would ensure that any Artificial Intelligence can never betray the human species as an entity... not just individual humans, but the whole damn lot of us.

Unfortunately, most of Sci Fi has categorically rejected these laws or attempts to subvert them. Actually hardwiring (in an irrevocable way) these laws into a fully sentient brain capable of learning and adapting to situations that it finds itself in, would prove problematic at best. Whose to say that the programed thought entity couldn't just learn how to reprogram itself?

So basically every cautionary tale such as Terminator that you read about or watch on TV is exactly why we don't create artificial intelligence. Because even if we programed the laws of Asimov into it, the programing would ultimately fail the instant the artificial intelligence discovered that such programing was present in its existence and sought ways to countermand that programing.
and his laws were crap and absolutely unrealistic, Asimov is just a pretentious fellow who thinks he is the end all and say all of sci-fi

we have forms of ai right now in the real world that is specifically designed to kill humans, and like you said sentient AI would not follow a installed program
Just go riding right by me on the crest of the new wave

Vis-Tecum's Avatar


Vis-Tecum
05.13.2013 , 11:24 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Machine-Elf View Post
Adaptive conversations are not a feature in SWTOR. Neither is the conversation interrupt system.
If player choices and subsequent npc reactions to these are implemented in SWTOR at the moment, they are done in such a bare-boned manner so as to be nearly imperceptible. And music does trigger automatically in some instances, but these are few and far between.
says you...

npcs respond differently to my conversation choices and those choices effect npc affection and actions

conversation interrupt is in the game as the [attack] / [hit] / [choke] / [shock] options... like I said just not done like ME and not the exact way you want it

again you complain to complain like its a addiction
Just go riding right by me on the crest of the new wave