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Do you remember City of Heroes?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Off-Topic
Do you remember City of Heroes?

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
05.11.2013 , 06:00 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Aries_cz View Post
The problem is that trinity is very effective time proven model ever since tabletop RPGs... You need a guy who can take damage (either through bulky armor, sheer vitality, or some magic), guy who keeps the party alive (alchemist, divine caster, etc) and guys who just unleash mayhem on enemies.

All other games that tried to go another way ended up with some amorphous blob of abilities that could do everything, but not really well, unless you took time to specifically focus on them (and thus bringing you to the trinity I outlined in first paragraph again).

As for "needing" one part of trinity, plenty missions (except the hard ones, which could fall under the "difficult" where they were needed in CoH) can be done without someone specialized as Tank or Healer, it just makes it a bit more difficult...
There's nothing wrong with designing a game around the trinity.

Designing a solo game around the trinity though, now that makes no sense at all.

What we have in TOR is 95% solo game. Every class in the game is generic enough to be able to easily solo the majority of PvE content up to 50. They can all DPS and tank well enough to breeze through most of it, and the times they can't... presto! They hand you an uber pet called a companion that does everything you can not.

For the actual group content (pre-50), it has been my experience in TOR that no class is required when the 4 players in the group are "MMO veterans". A healer is always nice to have and any healer played by any MMO veteran is all you ever need to beat any group content. Tanks are a bonus but not needed.

There are a handful of Heroics, around 1 per planet, that actually play almost like an actual MMO. For those few missions, having a tank and healer make then much less deadly, but they are few and far between. The real challenge in those particular missions isn't that they are terribly hard, it's that they are so out of character to the rest of the game that they catch people by surprise.

Jacen_Starsolo's Avatar


Jacen_Starsolo
05.13.2013 , 06:21 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Out of curiosity.. has anyone here besides me ever done business negotiatons with a Korean company?

The sequence of events surrounding the shut down of CoH is very typical and in fact predicable once Paragon decided to take an aggressive approach with company management in Korea. Paragon created a face issue for NCsoft and NCsoft dealt with it in a predictable way (from a Korean business standpoint).

The reason the MMO was not sold off to a 3rd party, not sold to Paragon, and the copyrights are frozen is NCsoft decided to teach Paragon management (and the studios in general) a lesson. The game was still profitable as far as I can tell... but not enough to keep it open under the circumstances precipitated.

The playerbase are the ones that suffered because of this... but it's actualy Paragons fault. I blame Paragon for the mishandling of all of this. There is a right way and a wrong way to negotiate business with Korean companies. NCsoft management was just doing/being what is normal in Korean business. Western studios need to learn from this debacle.
That still stands what I said. Nothing you put disputes that. They LIED about trying to sell it off. All you did was say something unrelated to the fact they NEVER tried to sell it off to anyone else like they tried to say after the playerbase was up in arms towards them.

Jacen_Starsolo's Avatar


Jacen_Starsolo
05.13.2013 , 06:27 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
There's nothing wrong with designing a game around the trinity.

Designing a solo game around the trinity though, now that makes no sense at all.

What we have in TOR is 95% solo game. Every class in the game is generic enough to be able to easily solo the majority of PvE content up to 50. They can all DPS and tank well enough to breeze through most of it, and the times they can't... presto! They hand you an uber pet called a companion that does everything you can not.

For the actual group content (pre-50), it has been my experience in TOR that no class is required when the 4 players in the group are "MMO veterans". A healer is always nice to have and any healer played by any MMO veteran is all you ever need to beat any group content. Tanks are a bonus but not needed.

There are a handful of Heroics, around 1 per planet, that actually play almost like an actual MMO. For those few missions, having a tank and healer make then much less deadly, but they are few and far between. The real challenge in those particular missions isn't that they are terribly hard, it's that they are so out of character to the rest of the game that they catch people by surprise.
You know I always get a chuckle when in BH, I see people broadcast for a specific class. Easiest run ever on the H4 was when we had 4 DPS'ers plow through it like a hot lightsaber through butter. As Vader would say, "All too easy." And that was before the level cap raise. Now, that will be laughable to run.

And did a lot of H4's with just one other player and comps without deaths.

UndyingImhotep's Avatar


UndyingImhotep
05.13.2013 , 07:25 AM | #34
CoH was my first MMO. Before CoH my attitude towards subscription games was why should I have to pay a monthly fee for a computer game I've already paid money on to buy. Then one day I saw my friends playing in the CoH beta test and was intrigued and asked if I could give it a try. Once I did that I was hooked and, on May 1st 2004, I started on the adventure of being a superhero in Paragon City. I played off and on till the game was prematurely shut down last year. When CoV hit I fell in love immediately with the Mastermind class and spent many, many hours tromping around the Rogue Islands (and later in Paragon City when switching sides became possible) with Unit 342, my Robots/Force Field MM, melting face with the combined firepower of my six robots. When NCSuck decided to shut down the game it pissed me off with the way they went about the shut down, closing Paragon Studios without warning and absolutely no communications to a very loyal player base on the reasoning behind the shut down. I, along with a majority of the player base of CoH, have boycotted any titles with the NCSuck name on them because of this.
Solve a man's problem with violence and help him for a day. Teach a man how to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime - Belkar Bitterleaf

JimG's Avatar


JimG
05.13.2013 , 10:44 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by MsKaos View Post
Seems now all the new patches are not really patches as in fixes to the game. But, more of addons to the Cartel Market.
Actually, the last patch on April 24th had a ton of bug fixes....but I guess you don't read the patch notes. They typically don't release a lot of patches heavy on bug fixes the week or two before an update though....presumably they are busy finalizing the update and the put some bug fixes in with the update.

TheSeventhJedi's Avatar


TheSeventhJedi
05.13.2013 , 11:16 AM | #36
Oooh! I'm on Shadowlands! Send all your stuff to Exandrus, please.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
05.13.2013 , 11:18 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Jacen_Starsolo View Post
That still stands what I said. Nothing you put disputes that. They LIED about trying to sell it off. All you did was say something unrelated to the fact they NEVER tried to sell it off to anyone else like they tried to say after the playerbase was up in arms towards them.
What I did was put the blame where it properly rests.. with the arrogant management team at Paragon. Paragon management killed the game by creating a face issue with home office in Korea. They did it deliberately IMO, to make a power play on ownership and control over the MMO. They lost, and were made an example of.

I feel sorry for the players and for Paragon employees for how it was handled. NCsoft management acted in a predictable manner in the face of Paragon Managements behaviors. It's called business.. Korean style. Other studios better learn it, or be careful never to fall under the umbrella of a Korean Company. And MMO players need to be aware as well before they invest time in an MMO from a studio that is under the control of NCsoft (such as the upcoming Wildstar).
Forum disputatio ------> est completum ineptias.

SlimsPicken's Avatar


SlimsPicken
05.13.2013 , 12:00 PM | #38
the CoH dev team was, quite simply, the best in the business.

Great communication, everyone of them played the game they made, good/fun people, amazing game for its time.

I remember CoH very fondly. They did quite a bit right that most MMOs do wrong.
For every man there is a sentence, a string of words, which has the power to destroy him.

Blackavaar's Avatar


Blackavaar
05.13.2013 , 12:25 PM | #39
Yes, I remember CoX. I played from about a month after launch of CoH until they started trying to force me to log on through the NCSoft launcher, when I finally quit altogether.

I agree, SWTOR seems to be going a similar route and I think a month or two of bad Cartel Market sales would prompt EA to end it all. Let's just hope the gambling addicts and credit farmers keep buying those packs.

I play on Shadowlands. If you would like to make a donation to my cause feel free to Mail it to Blackavaar.

Good luck in your future gaming. Farewell.

Only the meek get pinched. The bold survive.(███████████████████████████████████║║█[Θ]█]◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙[█]

maxetius's Avatar


maxetius
05.13.2013 , 01:22 PM | #40
Quote:
with the arrogant management team at Paragon. Paragon management killed the game by creating a face issue with home office in Korea. They did it deliberately IMO,
opinion based on a sample size of 0.