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Do you remember City of Heroes?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Off-Topic
Do you remember City of Heroes?

Aries_cz's Avatar


Aries_cz
05.11.2013 , 03:48 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by HelinCarnate View Post
I remember that there was no holy trinity. While there were classes that could tank and others that did dps and others that could heal, none of them were required except for maybe the most difficult content of the game. So if you had 5 people and 2 more wanted to join, it would not matter what class they were.

I had very few issues with that game and SWTOR can take note of what worked. For some things they already have. Some of the new missions adjust based on party size. Just need to get rid of the trinity allow for larger party sizes. Not an easy task as it would require a huge rework of all FPs. Had a great time playing it and met the person that introduced my to my future wife there.
The problem is that trinity is very effective time proven model ever since tabletop RPGs... You need a guy who can take damage (either through bulky armor, sheer vitality, or some magic), guy who keeps the party alive (alchemist, divine caster, etc) and guys who just unleash mayhem on enemies.

All other games that tried to go another way ended up with some amorphous blob of abilities that could do everything, but not really well, unless you took time to specifically focus on them (and thus bringing you to the trinity I outlined in first paragraph again).

As for "needing" one part of trinity, plenty missions (except the hard ones, which could fall under the "difficult" where they were needed in CoH) can be done without someone specialized as Tank or Healer, it just makes it a bit more difficult...
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HumanPirhana's Avatar


HumanPirhana
05.11.2013 , 05:20 AM | #22
I will never purchase another NCSoft title again, f**k that company.

This. Times a thousand.

COH was my first MMO. A friend showed it to me a week after launch and I was immediately hooked. Within a week I had bought my own copy and I maintained a continous subscription for over 7 years, never leaving the game until SWTOR's beta. Even after SWTOR's launch, I intended to return to COH at some point. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who had anything to do with the decision to shut it down can burn in hell. What an amazing game, community, and development team. I never knew how good I had it there until it was over. RIP COX.
Don't make me get all green perpendicular up in this beeotch.
Yeah.
I said it.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
05.11.2013 , 07:06 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Aries_cz View Post
The problem is that trinity is very effective time proven model ever since tabletop RPGs... You need a guy who can take damage (either through bulky armor, sheer vitality, or some magic), guy who keeps the party alive (alchemist, divine caster, etc) and guys who just unleash mayhem on enemies.

All other games that tried to go another way ended up with some amorphous blob of abilities that could do everything, but not really well, unless you took time to specifically focus on them (and thus bringing you to the trinity I outlined in first paragraph again).

As for "needing" one part of trinity, plenty missions (except the hard ones, which could fall under the "difficult" where they were needed in CoH) can be done without someone specialized as Tank or Healer, it just makes it a bit more difficult...
Is that why people suck at RP in TOR? "You're a Jedi Guardian. You're our Guilds Tank." "Huh?"

CoH proved you could do without the holy trinity. What keeps people thinking they need it, is because all the other games have it.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

PrimalPrimeval's Avatar


PrimalPrimeval
05.11.2013 , 08:43 AM | #24
I sub to multiple MMO's: SWTOR, LOTRO & CO at the moment.

I was a 7 year vet with 20 level 50 toons in COH and absolutely loved that game! The 8 slot teams, the travel powers, the ability to port from anywhere to mission entrances, the ability to switch from hero to villain and back again, etc, etc, etc. And the biggest one for me was the unlimited sidekicking/mentoring with all team members adjusted to the team lead/mission holder's level, it worked quite well! It was fantastically easy to get teams at any level The incarnate system for advancing character powers without raising the level cap was absolute genius! I could go on & on & on...

SWTOR devs you might want to take note of some of the game features offered to players in COH, those are what made it for me the best MMO ever.

And I agree with the majority of dedicated COH players, The game was making money yet we had the rug jerked out from underneath us so I'll never spend another dime any ANY NCSoft product. In fact I'd be happy if the entire NCSoft board of directors were abducted by the North Koreans.

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
05.11.2013 , 08:45 AM | #25
OP is all likelihood is not leaving. He's just calling out for attention. People who leave just leave

Jacen_Starsolo's Avatar


Jacen_Starsolo
05.11.2013 , 09:23 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Callaron View Post
You should keep in mind that this is EA, not NCSoft - EA owns Ultima Online after all, one of the oldest MMO's out there, who's got several years on CoH, and they still keep it running - heck they even come out with expansions for it now and then.
What NCSoft did was an attrocity, they shut down a game that was still profitable and that was on the rise again since going F2P - something the devs themselves have confirmed.
So have a little faith, despite EA's many flaws, they are not NCSoft.
NCSoft is terribad. Look at the list of games they had shut down.

And NCSoft flat out lied about trying to sell CoX. When Atari was trying to sell off Cryptic, everyone knew about it months before PWE even came in the picture as a potential buyer. Paragon Studios employees didn't even know anything about NCSoft trying to sell it or anything and got blindsided by the shutdown news. And I know of at least one company that tried to buy CoX after the shutdown news hit and NCSoft basically just said, "No."

Callaron's Avatar


Callaron
05.11.2013 , 10:07 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Jacen_Starsolo View Post
NCSoft is terribad. Look at the list of games they had shut down.

And NCSoft flat out lied about trying to sell CoX. When Atari was trying to sell off Cryptic, everyone knew about it months before PWE even came in the picture as a potential buyer. Paragon Studios employees didn't even know anything about NCSoft trying to sell it or anything and got blindsided by the shutdown news. And I know of at least one company that tried to buy CoX after the shutdown news hit and NCSoft basically just said, "No."
Paragon Studios also tried to buy themselves free from NCSoft when the news came that they were planning on shutting it down.
Gamasutra just did an article about it last month, where they talked to some of Paragon's devs.
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Darth_Moonshadow's Avatar


Darth_Moonshadow
05.11.2013 , 04:15 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Callaron View Post
Paragon Studios also tried to buy themselves free from NCSoft when the news came that they were planning on shutting it down.
Gamasutra just did an article about it last month, where they talked to some of Paragon's devs.
But NCsoft said no. They'd rather sit on a dead franchise than let the game continue on. Did you know they have complete copyright of all the heroes and villains? Paragon can't even make a sequel featuring their characters and call it something else. Who knows, maybe NCsoft copyright the player made heroes and villains! We never read the ToS!

Quote: Originally Posted by BruceMaclean View Post

And I love Darth Moonshadow's responses.
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Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
05.11.2013 , 04:31 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Jacen_Starsolo View Post
NCSoft is terribad. Look at the list of games they had shut down.

And NCSoft flat out lied about trying to sell CoX. When Atari was trying to sell off Cryptic, everyone knew about it months before PWE even came in the picture as a potential buyer. Paragon Studios employees didn't even know anything about NCSoft trying to sell it or anything and got blindsided by the shutdown news. And I know of at least one company that tried to buy CoX after the shutdown news hit and NCSoft basically just said, "No."
Quote: Originally Posted by Callaron View Post
Paragon Studios also tried to buy themselves free from NCSoft when the news came that they were planning on shutting it down.
Gamasutra just did an article about it last month, where they talked to some of Paragon's devs.
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Moonshadow View Post
But NCsoft said no. They'd rather sit on a dead franchise than let the game continue on. Did you know they have complete copyright of all the heroes and villains? Paragon can't even make a sequel featuring their characters and call it something else. Who knows, maybe NCsoft copyright the player made heroes and villains! We never read the ToS!

Out of curiosity.. has anyone here besides me ever done business negotiatons with a Korean company?

The sequence of events surrounding the shut down of CoH is very typical and in fact predicable once Paragon decided to take an aggressive approach with company management in Korea. Paragon created a face issue for NCsoft and NCsoft dealt with it in a predictable way (from a Korean business standpoint).

The reason the MMO was not sold off to a 3rd party, not sold to Paragon, and the copyrights are frozen is NCsoft decided to teach Paragon management (and the studios in general) a lesson. The game was still profitable as far as I can tell... but not enough to keep it open under the circumstances precipitated.

The playerbase are the ones that suffered because of this... but it's actualy Paragons fault. I blame Paragon for the mishandling of all of this. There is a right way and a wrong way to negotiate business with Korean companies. NCsoft management was just doing/being what is normal in Korean business. Western studios need to learn from this debacle.
sayonara SWTOR. I will miss the game, I will miss many players, I will NOT miss being lied to and deceived. I will not miss rookie level mistakes of epic proportions.

Darth_Moonshadow's Avatar


Darth_Moonshadow
05.11.2013 , 05:33 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Out of curiosity.. has anyone here besides me ever done business negotiatons with a Korean company?

The sequence of events surrounding the shut down of CoH is very typical and in fact predicable once Paragon decided to take an aggressive approach with company management in Korea. Paragon created a face issue for NCsoft and NCsoft dealt with it in a predictable way (from a Korean business standpoint).

The reason the MMO was not sold off to a 3rd party, not sold to Paragon, and the copyrights are frozen is NCsoft decided to teach Paragon management (and the studios in general) a lesson. The game was still profitable as far as I can tell... but not enough to keep it open under the circumstances precipitated.

The playerbase are the ones that suffered because of this... but it's actualy Paragons fault. I blame Paragon for the mishandling of all of this. There is a right way and a wrong way to negotiate business with Korean companies. NCsoft management was just doing/being what is normal in Korean business. Western studios need to learn from this debacle.
Better idea: Let's just not give Korea video games.

They got the Gentleman going on over there. They can entertain themselves.

Quote: Originally Posted by BruceMaclean View Post

And I love Darth Moonshadow's responses.
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