Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 07: Darth Maul vs. Asajj Ventress

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 07: Darth Maul vs. Asajj Ventress

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
05.06.2013 , 03:44 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
Ventress' Makashi had clearly gotten a lot better in the second half of the war, when she could face off against multiple Jedi at a time and some times had very little difficulty, Tano even states that no one Jedi can face off against Ventress because she is too powerful, now obviously the likes of Windu and Yoda would clean house with her, but beyond those two I have no difficulty believing what Tano states.
Indeed, but I'm draw your attention to the following. Dooku easily defeats Ventress, and I am of the opinion that Maul would fare far better, if not defeat (at least in lightsaber combat) Dooku. Though it would be incredibly close. Given the fact that Maul has achieved mastery over several forms, and Ventress over none, we must assume Ventress would be bested in a lightsaber duel. Perhaps in short order.
Quote:
Well Maul smartly removes Kenobi for the second half of the fight until he kills Jinn, also as I have stated, Jinn was a great duellist, but by TPM he was clearly entering his twilight years as a Jedi Master and Maul's extreme conditioning was way beyond Qui-Gon's.

Secondly, Ventress was injured, very injured due to Dooku's betrayal not just physically but mentally as well, so she would've been easy prey for just about any of the more powerful Jedi, but the fact she still manages to break through their force barriers with ease and force crush both of them is an obvious example of how powerful she was becoming, so much so that Sidious has Dooku attempt to destroy her because he fears that Dooku ay be training her to help replace him. and yet when Maul returns with Savage Opress, Sidious has absolutely no worries when he dispatches them, there is clearly a difference in power here as far as Sidious believes.
1. I agree, but his performance remains impressive nonetheless. Jinn may not have been in his prime but he remained a master duelist, and Maul managed to hold off both him and Obi-Wan for an extended period of time.

2. Injured yes, but those emotions coupled with her desperation fuelled her power. Simiarily in the above video Savage managed to choke both Ventress and Dooku outright - despite being weakened. It's clear both can be explained as a sudden surge of emotions. Nothing applicable in the midst of battle.

3. Sidious has Dooku dispatch Ventress for him, Sidious goes personally to destroy Maul - how is that not considering him a threat? I don't think Sidious was ever worried about Ventress destroying him, but Dooku growing confident enough to try, which would disrupt his plans. Nor do I believe that if Sidious had to dispatch Ventress, he would have any worries either. He is Darth Sidious after all.

Quote:
It is not just telekinetics though, it is a very cunning display of Dun Moch, a very advanced force jump and exceptional force speed, not to mention that Ventress' displays of telekinesis is WAY beyond anything Maul has displayed.
What about when he dragged a shuttle down a cliff? TCW I know but his feat nonetheless. Nor do I think her speed is that exceptional, never seemed to phase Anakin or Obi-Wan. And Maul has an incredible defense so running rings around him isn't going to do much. Dun Moch may have an effect however, but that depends on how its applied - given that Maul wields Juyo it could very easily backfire and with disastrous consequences.

YoshiRaphElan's Avatar


YoshiRaphElan
05.06.2013 , 05:01 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
if Padawan-turning-Knight Obi-Wan's Ataru can defeat Maul's Juyo, then Asajj's Makashi should by all means wreck Maul's Juyo.
I've got to correct you on something here. Obi-Wan did not defeat Maul in an Ataru vs. Juyo duel. In fact, Maul beat Obi-Wan in that duel. Obi-Wan only won when he Force-pulled Qui-Gon's lightsaber and cut Maul in half. In the fight itself, Maul had Obi-Wan beaten cleanly.

ZahirS's Avatar


ZahirS
05.06.2013 , 09:06 PM | #23
But I think Ventress still has this. Because she defended vs Obi-Wan and Anakin Skywalker both Jedi Knights level, that means she knew how to defend Anakin's Dejem So and Obi-Wan Ataru.

Maul would last aprox 3 secs alive before Dooku kills him or less, Ventress atleast fought him before she fled.

Darkondo's Avatar


Darkondo
05.06.2013 , 10:51 PM | #24
Personally, if you ask me using Mace Windu as a measuring stick is a terrible idea for 1 reason, Vaapad. The reason Mace was able to dominate/defeat Ventress, Dooku, and Sidious is because they all are dark side users and Windu's Vaapad feeds off the dark side be it either his own or his opponents.

Qui-gon and Dooku were said to be equal to Windu in saber skills, but that's only when Mace didn't have any darkness to channel other than his own (he was only able to defeat Sidious because of Vaapad and would have been killed had he used any other form).

That being said I would have to give this to Maul. He has dueled Darth Sidious to the point where Sidious actually got frustrated and had to try to defeat him (May I remind you that Sidious killed Agen Kolar, Sassee Tiin, and Kit Fitso effortlessly whom were some of the orders most powerful saber duelists)

Ventress, on the other hand has been consistently dominated by Dooku in every fight they have been in. And didn't Grievous beat Ventress early on which gave him the right to be the Droid Commander for the CIS or is that not canon cause I don't see anything contradicting it?

I give the edge to Maul simply because he has fought better duelists and was never thoroughly dominated (unless you count Sidious trying but hey only Mace Windu and Yoda in the PT were able to stand up to that.)

ZahirS's Avatar


ZahirS
05.06.2013 , 11:13 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Darkondo View Post


That being said I would have to give this to Maul. He has dueled Darth Sidious to the point where Sidious actually got frustrated and had to try to defeat him (May I remind you that Sidious killed Agen Kolar, Sassee Tiin, and Kit Fitso effortlessly whom were some of the orders most powerful saber duelists)

Ventress, on the other hand has been consistently dominated by Dooku in every fight they have been in. And didn't Grievous beat Ventress early on which gave him the right to be the Droid Commander for the CIS or is that not canon cause I don't see anything contradicting it?

I give the edge to Maul simply because he has fought better duelists and was never thoroughly dominated (unless you count Sidious trying but hey only Mace Windu and Yoda in the PT were able to stand up to that.)
Its difficult to measure Maul if you haven't considered that Dooku was a replacement, Dooku is by far the strongest of all three: Maul, Ventress and Dooku

But Ventress is second only to Dooku, Maul would find ventress superior even in jar'kai, considering Dooku was planning to use ventress against Sideous proves how much she is capable of doing

fellblade's Avatar


fellblade
05.07.2013 , 05:39 AM | #26
I like Ventress a lot but I will take Maul in This - I just think he is the better fighter

Firstly I think His Technical abilities and Skills are more refined also his stylistic Blend Gives him good versatility
and adaptability. Not to mention that he can shrug off more physical punishment

Juyo is a Kinetic Style that Makashi may have some problems against. Maul can fight with Saberstaff, Jar Kai Wielding and Single Saber. Ventress is noticeably less effective if not using Jar Kai. Maul will Ramp up the Pace of the Fight as it goes on and overwhelm her. Savage Oppress was pretty good match for Ventress - Maul showed that he was a different level to Oppress and pretty much schooled him as easily as Dooku when they fought for dominance....

Ventress usually fights Obi and Anakin to run away - Savage Oppress was able to hold them off as well as a droid ambush when escape was his primary goal

Dooku Rated Mauls Skills - Dooku said that if Savage was as Powerful as Maul then they would be able to Overthrow Sidious together. I think Maul would do a lot better against Dooku than Ventress
Maul was able to Overwhelm Armoured Vader toe to toe - and Vader was a more effective fighter then than in his Anakin days and he wasn't able to bring his powerful telekinetics to bear against Maul

Maul's actual force ability is underrated
The Cartoon is a Different medium from the movies (where we have only seen Ventress) - Maul himself used force powers more in the cartoon and some powerful Telekinetics to pull down a pretty large ship. and Aside from Sidious seems to be pretty hard to catch with Force abilities. Also he must be pretty powerful to use the force to keep alive after being Chopped in Half - I haven't seen many Jedi or Sith that would be able to do this.....

He gave a pretty good account of himself in Jar Kai vs Sidious being pretty much matching him overwhelmed by force powers in the end.

In the Fight 2 v 1 against Obi Wan - Obi Wan concentrated on Savage (Savages' overeagerness and lack of experience - leaving his knee exposed proved a liability)
Quote: Originally Posted by Barringer View Post
Tulak Hord is only an unknown because he killed anyone that has ever seen him fight.

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
05.07.2013 , 05:59 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by YoshiRaphElan View Post
I've got to correct you on something here. Obi-Wan did not defeat Maul in an Ataru vs. Juyo duel. In fact, Maul beat Obi-Wan in that duel. Obi-Wan only won when he Force-pulled Qui-Gon's lightsaber and cut Maul in half. In the fight itself, Maul had Obi-Wan beaten cleanly.
I am referring to the victory when Obi-Wan destroyed half of Maul's weapon and nearly killed him anyway and this was again in an enclosed space, perfect for Juyo, terrible for Ataru.

Also, as I have also stated before, Juyo's normally powerful kinetic blows become much less so with the use of a Saberstaff, it is very clear from watching the Theed palace engagement and reading his books like Wrath and Shadow Hunter, that his Juyo was NOT focused on kinetic blows, but instead based on lightning fast blows which included teras kasi unarmed combat techniques, he also used Niman heavily which was a form of moderation.
I am the Battlemaster of the Jedi Order. I've struck you down once already. Today, I'm finishing the job.
Jedi Order

fellblade's Avatar


fellblade
05.07.2013 , 07:19 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
I am referring to the victory when Obi-Wan destroyed half of Maul's weapon and nearly killed him anyway and this was again in an enclosed space, perfect for Juyo, terrible for Ataru.

Also, as I have also stated before, Juyo's normally powerful kinetic blows become much less so with the use of a Saberstaff, it is very clear from watching the Theed palace engagement and reading his books like Wrath and Shadow Hunter, that his Juyo was NOT focused on kinetic blows, but instead based on lightning fast blows which included teras kasi unarmed combat techniques, he also used Niman heavily which was a form of moderation.
He did not nearly kill him - he chopped his saber in half and then Maul recovered straight away - they fought for a bit and Went into a Saber lock - Maul WON the saber lock - forcing Obi Wan's saber upwards leaving him Vulnerable to the Force Push that knocked Obi Wan into the reactor..... (funny Thing is - Maul seemed to use a more mobile acrobatic style than both of his 'Ataru' opponents in the film)

It is these mix of Styles that give him an extra edge - he is More than just Pure Juyo but he Is primarily a master of Juyo so of course would have the option of using a more Kinetic style if he felt it would be advantageous to use against a specific opponent.........(like a Ventress)
Quote: Originally Posted by Barringer View Post
Tulak Hord is only an unknown because he killed anyone that has ever seen him fight.

mefit's Avatar


mefit
05.07.2013 , 09:22 AM | #29
I am going with Maul , he was trained by the most powerful skilled Sithlord ever .
Even though Maul was no master of Double Bladed Lightsabers (Where is he was best suited for Single Hand LightSabers) , he used one famously in the Movie and killed a Jedi Master and almost his padawan who by luck got the final blow with his master's lightsaber .

Ventress was never considered worthy of being a Apprentice and in all fights of note worthy Characters , ended up running for her life in the end . Hence her going in hiding .
She was atlarge just a pawn who when not needed anymore was targeted to be killed.
Darth Maul now also a Pawn was still considered more worthy to be still used where is Ventress was not .

Ventress does have 1 thing over Maul , she is able to get away . So far no one has been able to get her and that is a feat worth mentioning.

But in a 1v1 fight with Maul with no exits , she loses .

I Think over all Ventress is a way more appealing character and one I would rather see more of , but she is clearly out matched even with Cyber Legs Maul .
Give a Man a Mask and he'll become his true self

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
05.07.2013 , 10:29 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by mefit View Post

Ventress was never considered worthy of being a Apprentice and in all fights of note worthy Characters , ended up running for her life in the end . Hence her going in hiding .
She was atlarge just a pawn who when not needed anymore was targeted to be killed.
Darth Maul now also a Pawn was still considered more worthy to be still used where is Ventress was not .
Oh so wrong.
She has fled in combat with the strongest characters in TCW, like Yoda, Kenobi and Skywalker, but she has bested other major powers.
She defeated Luminara Unduli with ease, she bested General Grevious in one on one Saber Combat (She didn't even use the force) She had many noteworthy battles, you're just comparing her skills to people Maul could not face either.
We all live or die as Krayt wills, Stryfe. At his word, I would cut out my own heart. Or yours.
Zarys Sorcerer Cathinka Seeliara Sage
Posted the prologue of fanfic Echoes.