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Theory on the Emperor's Fate [SPOILERS]

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Theory on the Emperor's Fate [SPOILERS]

Darth_Wicked's Avatar


Darth_Wicked
04.18.2013 , 10:59 PM | #11
I belive you're reading too much into the whole thing...

The Emperor, as mentioned previously by the Hand, suffered an unpredictable and almost deadly blow at the hands of the Jedi Knight; Thus, he is now weakened, kept somewhere safe from prying eyes and left to rest.

Also, the reason the JK storyline says and / or implies one thing and the SW another, though not contradicting each other, is both to complement and not to reveal too much outside both storylines. For example...
Spoiler


Again, reading too much into this...
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Quote: Originally Posted by Lord Praven on the Esus Mesa
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Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.19.2013 , 10:41 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Wicked View Post
I belive you're reading too much into the whole thing...
While I understand what your saying ultimately my conclusion is a very simple one. The Hero of Tython killed the Emperor, the Emperor is dead.

My arguments may seem a little complex, but that's just me trying to justify my point. However I cannot accept to the alternative because I feel it raises too many questions and becomes too complex as a result.

For example:

  • Where is the Emperor getting these voices from?
  • Where is the Emperor's true body being held? (Can't be his fortress which has been destroyed, and Dromund Kaas is insecure.) Deep space? Another galaxy?!
  • Why did it have such a massive effect on him?
  • Why hasn't anyone else be told?
  • Is the Emperor in the space fortress the same as the one in the Dark Temple, if not, why do they were they same robes?
  • Was the Emperor trying to trick the Knight?
  • How come Scourge, the Emperor's Wrath, didn't realise this?
  • Why is the Emperor so super corrupted?
  • Why is it taking him so long to recuperate?

And I can likely think of more, all these questions are answered however by saying: the Emperor is dead. Which raises far fewer questions.

Crawelc's Avatar


Crawelc
04.19.2013 , 05:52 PM | #13
Me>Revan. I knew it all along.
Imprimis <Fight><Redemption><Conquest>
All Imprimis All the time.

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kEs_Ha
04.19.2013 , 06:19 PM | #14

Darth_Wicked's Avatar


Darth_Wicked
04.19.2013 , 10:49 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
For example:
  • Where is the Emperor getting these voices from?
  • Where is the Emperor's true body being held? (Can't be his fortress which has been destroyed, and Dromund Kaas is insecure.) Deep space? Another galaxy?!
  • Why did it have such a massive effect on him?
  • Why hasn't anyone else be told?
  • Is the Emperor in the space fortress the same as the one in the Dark Temple, if not, why do they were they same robes?
  • Was the Emperor trying to trick the Knight?
  • How come Scourge, the Emperor's Wrath, didn't realise this?
  • Why is the Emperor so super corrupted?
  • Why is it taking him so long to recuperate?

And I can likely think of more, all these questions are answered however by saying: the Emperor is dead. Which raises far fewer questions.[/COLOR]
1 ) You mean his vessels? Probably from the Hand or other Sith Lords, like Baras?
2 ) Not really that relevant truth be told. If you want to assume that the Emperor's Hand is lying, then we'll have to start doubting every single storyline in the game, when there are aspects we disagree on.
3 ) E-mail from the Emperor's Hand to the Emperor's Wrath.
4 ) The Wrath was told last time I checked. Not the precise location but he was told the Emperor was regaining his strength.
5 ) Nothing would imply otherwise. You should also take into account the engine's technology, since last time I checked, the game doesn't allow the use of masks with some robes.
6 ) He tried early on to did to him what he did to Revan IMO, most likely having in as a link to the light side of the force, in order to have visions and such. He failed and since everyone he sent to deal with him failed as well, he felt the need to solve the issue once and for all.
7 ) He did detect. He said that he could sense the Emperor fading but that he wasn't gone yet. Plus, at the celebration, he says he'll stay with the Knight until he is 100% sure his old Master was destroyed.
8 ) It has been explained both in the Revan novel and in the game. Plus, I wouldn't call him corrupted, since unlike many characters in the game, the dude didn't babble a single time about the aspects of light and dark.
9 ) Pretty sure that will be revealed eventually. There's a point to the whole thing, just like there was having the Republic and Empire pouring time, lives and resources, into a petty conflict he cared little about per se.

And no, the Emperor is not dead, since that would contradict what the game has told us and if you contradict that, we can as well start contradicting everything.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Lord Praven on the Esus Mesa
My family is true Sith. My only passions are integrity and honor.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.20.2013 , 03:36 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Wicked View Post
1 ) You mean his vessels? Probably from the Hand or other Sith Lords, like Baras?
2 ) Not really that relevant truth be told. If you want to assume that the Emperor's Hand is lying, then we'll have to start doubting every single storyline in the game, when there are aspects we disagree on.
3 ) E-mail from the Emperor's Hand to the Emperor's Wrath.
4 ) The Wrath was told last time I checked. Not the precise location but he was told the Emperor was regaining his strength.
5 ) Nothing would imply otherwise. You should also take into account the engine's technology, since last time I checked, the game doesn't allow the use of masks with some robes.
6 ) He tried early on to did to him what he did to Revan IMO, most likely having in as a link to the light side of the force, in order to have visions and such. He failed and since everyone he sent to deal with him failed as well, he felt the need to solve the issue once and for all.
7 ) He did detect. He said that he could sense the Emperor fading but that he wasn't gone yet. Plus, at the celebration, he says he'll stay with the Knight until he is 100% sure his old Master was destroyed.
8 ) It has been explained both in the Revan novel and in the game. Plus, I wouldn't call him corrupted, since unlike many characters in the game, the dude didn't babble a single time about the aspects of light and dark.
9 ) Pretty sure that will be revealed eventually. There's a point to the whole thing, just like there was having the Republic and Empire pouring time, lives and resources, into a petty conflict he cared little about per se.

And no, the Emperor is not dead, since that would contradict what the game has told us and if you contradict that, we can as well start contradicting everything.
  1. Possibly. But its another question that has to be answered, given the fact that he managed to get another voice in such a short space of time.

  2. This is something of an exaggeration. We only have to doubt what we've been told if others have told us otherwise. Because in this situation someone is not telling the truth.

  3. The Hand's tell us it was an unexpected blow. Yet then the writer's have to explain if there is some special ritual needed for the safe transference of the Voice to the body - which further complicates things.

  4. Exactly, only the Wrath and not the rest of the Empire? Why not tell the entire Empire since rumors are going around that the Emperor is dead?

  5. Nothing. Exactly. And the first Emperor is met on his personal space fortress which has a Gree cloaking device and a Rakatan security grid and power core. It floats above the most secure Sith planet in the galaxy, and nobody is allowed to enter. If this is not where the Emperor's true body is being housed, then I have no idea where. Because you simply can't get any more secure than that. So the Emperor wearing the same clothes in the Dark Temple, which he would have been forced to flee to after his space station was compromised, is likely the real Emperor too.

  6. By pretending to be dead? How does that solve anything? So far all its caused is trouble and the near defeat of the Empire. At this rate he won't have an Empire by the time he wakes up. And if he does, everyone will believe him dead and all his power with be lost.

  7. *shrug* could just as easily be explained as, the Emperor still exists as a spirit.

  8. No it hasn't. In fact it has been practically stated otherwise that the Voice of the Emperor does not recieve heavy dark side corruption, especially not in the space of a few weeks.

  9. Already has.

Now your telling me that this would contradict what the game has told us. But that would only be the case if the game had told us, the Emperor is alive. But it hasn't. In fact its a hotly disputed topic. On one hand the Hand's say he is alive. But on the other hand, Darth Marr, Darth Malgus, Satele Shan and Chancellor Saresh tell us the Emperor is dead. Oh and add the Lead Writer Hall Hood to that list. Someone isn't telling the truth, I think the Hand's are lying, you think everyone else is. We stand on the same uncertain ground.

P.S. That's another question, if the Emperor is alive, why did Hall Hood, the Lead Writer and writer of the JK storyline say the following: "The Jedi Knight defeats the Emperor at the end, and the Emperor's body does die. You simply cannot say for certain, that the Emperor is not dead.

Onyxus's Avatar


Onyxus
04.20.2013 , 03:40 AM | #17
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but throughout the Makeb storyline I never heard anything like "Hail to the Emperor!" but heard quite often "For the Empire!"

Quite good that he's dead anyway, ultimately he just used the Empire as a tool for his ultimate goal: complete control over everything in the galaxy and nothing left but him (something like that anyway, he wanted to be every politician, farmer, citizen etc)

My SW would rather aid the Empire any day than the Emperor's personal goals

Darth_Wicked's Avatar


Darth_Wicked
04.20.2013 , 07:44 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Possibly. But its another question that has to be answered, given the fact that he managed to get another voice in such a short space of time.
There's nothing in the game that would indicate that the Emperor doesn't have multiple voices at his disposal. If memory serves me right, during the Jedi Knight's storyline, he possessed Kira with ease. Maybe he's able to possess a new vessel for his voice, in a similar fashion?

Still, not a very relevant point IMO.

Quote:
This is something of an exaggeration. We only have to doubt what we've been told if others have told us otherwise. Because in this situation someone is not telling the truth.
It's not an exaggeration. You're questioning what the game says to us, whenever it doesn't fit a particular theory of yours. How is that an exaggeration?

Also, not a single character in the game is, as far as I'm aware, lying. I'll explain what I mean below.

Quote:
The Hand's tell us it was an unexpected blow. Yet then the writer's have to explain if there is some special ritual needed for the safe transference of the Voice to the body - which further complicates things.
That is something I'd like to know more about, as well. From what I've been able to understand, when it comes to the Voss vessel, the Emperor's Hand was already waiting for the Emperor's essence. In the aftermath of the fight with the Jedi Knight, the Emperor was already weakened, due to the fact that the ritual didn't kickstart the way he wanted and - I assume - due to the fact he had taken another vessel, in a very short time period.

Quote:
Exactly, only the Wrath and not the rest of the Empire? Why not tell the entire Empire since rumors are going around that the Emperor is dead?
Probably for the same reason that drove the Emperor to be silent, ever since the Treaty of Coruscant? As far as I remember, he says to the Wrath that the petty conflicts that drive both Empire and Republic are beneath his notice.

Quote:
Nothing. Exactly. And the first Emperor is met on his personal space fortress which has a Gree cloaking device and a Rakatan security grid and power core. It floats above the most secure Sith planet in the galaxy, and nobody is allowed to enter. If this is not where the Emperor's true body is being housed, then I have no idea where. Because you simply can't get any more secure than that. So the Emperor wearing the same clothes in the Dark Temple, which he would have been forced to flee to after his space station was compromised, is likely the real Emperor too.
In the Encyclopedia for the game, it has been established that ever since the incident with Revan, the Exile and the purge of the Dark Council, 300 years ago, the Emperor had designed the whole Voice concept, in order to protect himself from further harm. Thus, the whole real Emperor thing you just described is moot.

We can assume from what has been told to us by the Hand that his real body is somewhere out there in the furthest reaches of known space.

Quote:
By pretending to be dead? How does that solve anything? So far all its caused is trouble and the near defeat of the Empire. At this rate he won't have an Empire by the time he wakes up. And if he does, everyone will believe him dead and all his power with be lost.
As I said before, he doesn't care about the Empire.

Quote:
*shrug* could just as easily be explained as, the Emperor still exists as a spirit.
Outside his real body, that's the way he actually exists. The fact he takes a Voice doesn't change that since, despite what may happen to the vessel, the Emperor's essence lives on.

Quote:
[*]No it hasn't. In fact it has been practically stated otherwise that the Voice of the Emperor does not recieve heavy dark side corruption, especially not in the space of a few weeks.
Why are we discussing a game mechanic here? The emperor is shown in that particular fashion to look evil at the player's eyes, nothing else. Again, it's a game mechanic.

Quote:
[*]Already has.[/LIST]
Now your telling me that this would contradict what the game has told us. But that would only be the case if the game had told us, the Emperor is alive. But it hasn't. In fact its a hotly disputed topic. On one hand the Hand's say he is alive. But on the other hand, Darth Marr, Darth Malgus, Satele Shan and Chancellor Saresh tell us the Emperor is dead. Oh and add the Lead Writer Hall Hood to that list. Someone isn't telling the truth, I think the Hand's are lying, you think everyone else is. We stand on the same uncertain ground.
You're mistaken...

Darth Malgus says that the Emperor is gone and the Emperor's Hand, as said before, has stated that the Dark Council runs blind and ONLY the Hand knows what the Emperor is truly up to. Also, the fact the Jedi Council and an SiS committee decided to say that the Emperor is dead doesn't make it so. Need I remind that some inside the Council actually believed that the Emperor could be redeemed? Did it make it so? not really.

Quote:
P.S. That's another question, if the Emperor is alive, why did Hall Hood, the Lead Writer and writer of the JK storyline say the following: "The Jedi Knight defeats the Emperor at the end, and the Emperor's body does die. You simply cannot say for certain, that the Emperor is not dead.
A source for that would be great, because if memory serves me right, in one of the latest videos for promoting Makeb, Hall Hood says that the fate of Emperor is a bit unclear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GzzCOJqPLc

Big difference I would say.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Lord Praven on the Esus Mesa
My family is true Sith. My only passions are integrity and honor.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
04.20.2013 , 08:38 AM | #19
You seem to be treating me as if I'm some kind of politician, and have a vested interest in believing the Emperor is dead and will therefore fabricate material to make it look like this is the case. I do not, its just what I believe given the material I have been presented with. I'm perfectly happy to change my mind, yet nothing has really convinced me.

This is the way I see it:

The Hand's say the Emperor is dead. They give me no proof, they have reasons to lie, I therefore do not believe them. If the Emperor, in game, came right up to me and said 'I'm alive' then I'd change my mind and it would be illogical to disagree. In that case the game would be telling me the Emperor is alive. However in this case, in-game characters are telling me the Emperor is alive, and providing no proof - big difference. I do not have to believe them.

Especially since Darth Marr has told me that the Emperor is dead, and so has Hall Hood, pretty definitively. I didn't find any evidence of what you said in that video either I'm afraid, perhaps I missed it.

I'm not saying it is the case, but it is a possibility. And if it was the case it wouldn't raise any glaring errors or plot holes but rather correct and fill them.

jovianus's Avatar


jovianus
04.20.2013 , 08:47 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
This is the way I see it:

The Hand's say the Emperor is dead. They give me no proof, they have reasons to lie, I therefore do not believe them. If the Emperor, in game, came right up to me and said 'I'm alive' then I'd change my mind and it would be illogical to disagree. In that case the game would be telling me the Emperor is alive. However in this case, in-game characters are telling me the Emperor is alive, and providing no proof - big difference. I do not have to believe them.
In that case, I will now operate on the assumption that anything said in the game but not actually seen should be ignored, because it's possible everyone in the game is lying to me.