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Stop comparing Vitiate to Palpatine...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Stop comparing Vitiate to Palpatine...

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
04.16.2013 , 02:14 PM | #1
Stop, stop saying Vitiate is more powerful, stop saying that Vitiate would beat Sidious, enough with these Vitiate vs Sidious threads. It has gotten to the point, where its just making me shake my head at some of the posts people make when these two are brought up....so here in order to prove that

Sidious > Vitiate

here is well...some proof!
===============

Quotes from Guides, Sourcebooks, Encyclopedias, etc

Quote:
Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known.

--Taken from Vader: The Ultimate Guide
Quote:
Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

--Taken from The New Essential Chronology
Quote:
Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting.

--Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary
Quote:
When Yoda crosses sabers with the movie's arch-villain, he doesn't launch into a pinwheeling display of acrobatics, as he did against Count Dooku in Episode II. Instead, Yoda faces the dark side's fury, channeled by the most powerful Sith Lord in history. "Rob Coleman wanted Yoda to feel the power of his enemy," says Wheless, "like a force he's never dealt with before."

--Taken from Insider #86: Yoda's Right Arm
Quote:
The Sith Order, in hiding for a millennium, had awaited the birth of one who was powerful enough to return the Order to prominence. Darth Sidious was the fulfillment of that prophecy, capable of exacting the Sith's revenge on the Jedi for having nearly eradicated the practitioners of the dark side of the Force.

--Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
Quote:
Darth Sidious proved to be the grim culmination of a thousand years of Sith philosophy and teachings.

--Taken from Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force
Quote:
Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chamber, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two engaged in a spectacular duel—a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force’s light and dark sides.

--Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
Quote:
Even Ulic Qel-Droma would be envious of Palpatine. He had succeeded where all others had failed in taming the Dark Side.

--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook
Quote:
Boarding his shuttle, he ordered the pilot to lift off. A pity, my son, he thought. You could have joined me and together...we could have destroyed the Emperor and ruled the galaxy in his place. As he stared at the severed appendage in his hands, a sudden flash of insight struck the Dark Lord, realization dawning like the sunrise of Bespin. Perhaps, if you will not be turned, little Jedi, a suitable substitute may be arranged.

Suddenly, Vader was struck to his knees by the horribly powerful voice that rolled like fiery thunder through his brain. The pilots struggled vainly to ignore the Dark Lord's...discomfort. "Yes, my servant," the voice boomed in his mind, dripping raw evil. "Come to Mount Tantiss, immediately. I shall meet you there, and we will discuss my new trophy."
"Yes...my Master," Vader gasped, feeling an icy stab of dread in his soul, as the Emperor's mocking chuckle still echoed in his mind. His Master had detected his rebellious thoughts. This discussion would be most unpleasant. Most unpleasant indeed.

--Taken from The Thrawn Trilogy Sourcebook: Clone B-2332-54
Senses traitorous thoughts from Vader and harms him mentally.
===========

Quotes from Novels

Quote:
To most eyes the man in those simple robes of rough cloth was unremarkable, just another being making his way in the universe. But to those who could feel the Force he was anything but ordinary. To them, he was a dark sun blazing with power that was simultaneously hypnotizing and terrifying to behold.
Darth Sidious, the reigning Dark Lord of the Sith, had come to Mandalore.
Savage stared at the new arrival in astonishment, transfixed by the sight.

--Taken from Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy
Quote:
Now the scene below subtly altered, though to the physical eye there was no change. Powered by the dark side, Dooku's perception took the measure of those below him with exhilarating precision.
Kenobi was luminous, a transparent being, a window onto a sunlit meadow of the Force.
Skywalker was a storm cloud, flickering with dangerous lightning, building the rotation that threatens a tornado.
And then there was Palpatine, of course: he was beyond power. He showed nothing of what might be within. Though seen with the eyes of the dark side itself, Palpatine was an event horizon. Beneath his entirely ordinary surface was absolute, perfect nothingness. Darkness beyond darkness.
A black hole of the Force.


--Taken from Revenge of the Sith
Quote:
Outside, the wind picked up another notch, shrieking and groaning among the eleven chimneys as if to announce the arrival of a hideous guest. Dooku's comm console chimed. He glanced over, expecting the daily report from General Grievous, or perhaps a message from Asajj Ventress. He reached over to open the channel, ecognized the digital signature of the incoming transmission, jabbed the channel open, and snapped to his feet. "You called, my Master?"

--Taken from Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
Just by hologram appearance, making the planet form a storm.

Quote:
"The churning energy mass of a Force Storm can consume everything it touches, for at its eye is pure hate. Just as a black hole devours a star, this storm can swallow armies and fold space."

--Taken from Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side
Quote:
"The Force Storm is truly an awe-inspiring demonstration of pure natural energy. After using the Force to open a hyperspace wormhole, tremendous shockwaves will ripple through the fabric of space. Due to the Force Storm's potential for abuse, the Council has recently classified it as a dark side power."

"The Reborn Emperor used this at Da Soocha. It has the power to kill worlds."

—Luke
--Taken from The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force
Feats from Novels/Comics

EDIT: Scans won't show up now, but they are there.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...ture__119_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...ture__120_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...ture__121_.jpg

Reducing a SithSpawn to ashes with Lighting.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...ture__103_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...ture__104_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...ture__105_.jpg

Burning 3 Darkside Prophets to their bones with just a burst of lighting.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__95_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__96_.jpg

Killing a Stormtrooper legion(which is 8,192 men) with precision to not harm his Royal Guards.

Quote:
Lightning blasted the clouds above, and lightning blasted from Palpatine's hands, and Mace didn't have time to comprehend what Palpatine was talking about; he had time only to slip back into Vaapad and angle his blade to catch the forking arcs of pure, dazzling hatred that clawed toward him. Because Vaapad is more than a fighting style. It is a state of mind: a channel for darkness. Power passed into him and out again without touching him. And the circuit completed itself: the lightning reflected back to its source.
Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.

Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me—"

This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith
Bending Mace's blade towards his face.

Quote:
The end came with astonishing suddenness. The shadow could feel how much it cost the little green freak to bend back his lightnings into the cage of energy that enclosed them both; the creature had reached the limits of his strength.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith
Overpowers Yoda's Force Absorb

Quote:
Once more Sidious allowed his memories to unfold, and he relived the crimethe event, as he had at last come to think of it. His father's limp and blooded body. The smashed skulls of the bodyguards. His hands clenched around his mother's slender throat—but not really, only in his mind, strangling her with his thoughts. The lifeless forms of his siblings, slumped here and there...

--Taken from Darth Plagueis
Killing his family without any training.

Quote:
His vision turned black after the piranha beetles devoured his eyes—but the pain continued for a long time afterward....
Later, Lemelisk had awakened, blinking his restored eyes, and was completely disoriented. He found himself in the same vaulted chamber, wrapped in a clean, white uniform. His body felt young and strong, without the paunch and the flab from spending too much time working on projects in his mind and too little effort maintaining his health.
Lemelisk bent his arms and looked at his hands, blinking in astonishment. Hearing a small buzz and clatter, he glanced over to find the wire-mesh cage still filled with buzzing, clacking piranha beetles that scampered up and down the walls, snapping their mandibles. Spattered patterns of fresh blood made arcs along the walls of the cage. Inside, he saw a carcass that had been stripped down to gnawed bones and shreds of clothing—the clothing he himself had worn only moments ago.
"You'll grow accustomed to your clone in a moment," the Emperor said, rubbing his knobby fingers over a strange ancient-looking artifact. "I trust that all of your memories have been transferred properly? It is an uncertain skill at best, and the Jedi I stole the technique from was reluctant to give me thorough instruction. But it seems to work."
Lemelisk nodded weakly, wanting to faint but knowing he didn't dare.
"Now don't fail me again, Lemelisk," the Emperor said. "I'd hate to have to think of an even worse execution for next time."

--Taken from Darksaber
Transfers Lemelisk's essence to a cloned body.

Quote:
He remembered playing a Force game with a shuura fruit, sitting across a long table from Padme in the retreat by the lake on Naboo. He remembered telling her how grumpy Obi-Wan would be to see him use the Force so casually.
Palpatine seemed to catch his thought; he gave a yellow sidelong glance as the robe settled onto his shoulders.
"You must learn to cast off the petty restraints that the Jedi have tried to place upon your power," he said. "Anakin, it's time. I need you to help me restore order to the galaxy."

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith
Reading Vader's mind.

Quote:
Jerjerrod shifted uneasily. He didn't dare voice his concern that he was needed in that ministry to make sure Imperial resources weren't overextended.
"Do not concern yourself with the logistical status of the Empire," Palpatine stated, as if he had read the Moff's mind.
--Taken from the Shadows of the Empire Sourcebook: In the Emperor's Service
Another show of mind reading.

Quote:
The Emperor closed his eyes and let the rage consume him. An energy bolt of anger crackled across his body, turning his blood black with venom. A red mist clouded the darkness behind his lids. The fog of hate would have shrouded the vision of a lesser man. But when the Emperor opened his eyes, the blood-tinged world was sharper than ever.
Clarity. Understanding. Power.
This was what the rage could do for him. This was what pathetic Jedi had never understood, as they rejected their anger, letting cowardice block their path to the dark side. This was why they had been eliminated, and why the Emperor reigned supreme, his power unquestioned. His iron rule unassailable.
Until now.
"My Lord, the Death Star has been...destroyed."
The Emperor played with his memory of the moment, polishing it in his mind like a precious gem. Remembering: Darth Vader's voice as he delivered the news. Vader's anger, so forceful the Emperor could feel it from halfway across the galaxy. And with the anger, terror, for Vader knew how terribly he had disappointed his Master. Vader knew it was not the first time.

--Taken from Rebel Force: Target
He feels the anger from Vader, from halfway across the galaxy.

Quote:
That smile, again, like a knife. Luke held silent, struggling to regain his composure. The Emperor tapped his fingers on the arm of the throne, recalling. “There was one called…Yoda. An aged Master Jed…Ah, I see by your countenance I have hit a chord, a resonant chord indeed. Yoda, then.”
Luke flashed with anger at himself, now, to have revealed so much, unwillingly, unwittingly. Anger and self-doubt. He strove to calm himself—to see all, to show nothing; only to be.
“This Yoda,” the Emperor mused. “Lives he still?”
Luke focused on the emptiness of space beyond the window behind the Emperor’s chair. The deep void, where nothing was. Nothing. He filled his mind with this black nothing. Opaque, save for the occasional flickering of starlight that filtered through the ether.
“Ah,” cried Emperor Palpatine. “He lives not. Very good, young Skywalker, you almost hid this from me. But you could not. And you can not. Your deepest flickerings are to me apparent. Your nakedest soul. That is my first lesson to you.” He beamed.

--Taken from Return of the Jedi
Reads Luke's thoughts and emotions.

Quote:
The planet Chandrila sponsored a monthlong retreat for members of the Legislative Youth Program. Once a year young beings from a host of worlds arrived to participate in mock Senate trials in and around Hanna City and to tour Chandrila’s vast agricultural projects, wilderness areas, coral reefs, and garden parks. It was in Gladean Park—a game reserve outside coastal Hanna—that Plagueis paid young Palpatine an unannounced visit. But it was Plagueis who was surprised.
“I knew you would come, Magister,” Palpatine said when Plagueis and 11-4D turned up at one of the game reserve’s viewing blinds.
“How did you know?”
“I knew, that’s all.”
“And just how often are your premonitions correct?”
“Almost always.”
“Curious,” 11-4D remarked while Palpatine was hurrying away to excuse himself from the company of two friends.

--Taken from Darth Plagueis
Plageuis is surprised that Sidious knew of him coming, this is Sidious when he was young.

Quote:
Blended into the herd, the animal Sidious had fixed his sight on would have been indistinguishable to normal beings. But Sidious had the animal in his mind and was now looking through its eyes, one with it.

--Taken from Darth Plagueis
He sees through the eyes of a beast.

Quote:
Maul had not wanted to disappoint his Master. He wanted to apologize and ask for forgiveness, but he knew if he did, his punishment would be even worse. And then he thought of how long he had suffered on Orsis because he had not been allowed to use his powers, and he felt his shame transform into rage. He looked up at Sidious and was about to speak but his Master made a pinching gesture. Maul felt his throat constrict. Sidious walked a few steps away from Maul before he released his remote grip on Maul's throat.

--Taken from The Wrath of Darth Maul
A show of Force Choke.

Quote:
"Already, I have perfected the Force maelstrom, which creates an invulnerable energy sphere to block incoming attacks while bombarding enemies with debris and electrifying them with bolts of lightning."

--Taken from Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side
States he mastered Force Maelstorm which was a stepping stone for him to get to Force Storms.

Quote:
Years ago, Emperor Palpatine chose Byss as his private retreat, and Imperial architects and engineers were commissioned to build him an opulent palace. Several million humans were allowed to emigrate to the world, where the Emperor and his adepts used the dark side to feed off their life energies. The planet's population eventually reached almost 20 billion, and all outgoing communications were censored by security agents.

--Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
Force Drain on an enormous scale of billions.

Quote:
Palpatine's body was destroyed. Separated from his clones, Palpatine was forced to survive in the maddening, bodiless existence of the void. Through sheer will he retained his identity, crossing the gulf of space to again take up residence in his clone body.

--Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
Through will he came back from the void, back into the physical realm.

Quote:
Maul parried the blow and reversed, coming at Sidious from the opposite side. But Sidious had already vanished, leaving Maul to lunge at the empty air. As Maul lost his balance, his body fell against the cave's wall.
Sidious said from behind Maul, "You are that pathetic. You are weak. Not worthy of being a Sith Lord. I have misjudged you."
Maul's anger burned to rage. He spun fast and swung his lightsaber again, but again he failed to strike Sidious, who moved faster than he could follow.

--Taken from The Wrath of Darth Maul
Moving faster, then Maul could follow.

Quote:
Now Tenebrous touched upon his apprentice's powers of foresight, which were also vastly more developed than Tenebrous had believed. For a moment, Tenebrous found his perception cast far forward in time—to Plagueis' own death at the hands of his apprentice, who was himself only visible as a smear of darkness...
A shadow!

--Taken from The Tenebrous Way
He appears to a blur Tenebrous, who foresaw Plagueis' death.

Quote:
The shadow he fought, that blur of speed—could that be Palpatine?
Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them—but he could feel them in the Force. The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent. And it was darkening.
He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith
Appearing as a blur to Anakin.

Quote:
Before Mace realizes what has happened, Kolar, Tiin, and Fisto have fallen to Sidious's blade.

--Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary
Another speed feat.

======

Now I shouldn't have to post Dueling skills, because Vitiate hasn't really shown much of any. So I won't.

Now there people, whatever Vitiate has done. Sidious has done and even then more(I didn't even really post the bigger things, I could have shown far more things he has done) you have multiple sources stating Sidious is the most powerful sith lord ever, so enough with this

"Vitiate is close to Sidious in power."

"Vitiate is the most powerful Sith Lord to exist."

"Vitiate blah, blah, blah!"

Enough.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Swissbob's Avatar


Swissbob
04.16.2013 , 02:31 PM | #2
Well, It's quite obvious a lot of work went into this! To which I say: Well done!

Usually I would very strongly side with Vitiate, but this post is a very good one, a great read, and helped me to better appreciate Palpatine. So again, well done!

However, all of this info alone does not put the entire argument to rest. This is a great compilation of Palpatine feats and achievements, but it does not "prove" that Palpatine is "better" than Vitiate.

Personally I believe that as time goes on, generally the Sith Lords get more and more powerful. This is because the entire Sith Philosophy is about survival of the fittest, even going so far as to have the apprentice kill their own masters to show that they are stronger. So, if we're talking a one-on-one duel between these two, I would agree that yes, Palpatine would be the probable victor.

However, 1v1 duels are not how I determine who is the "better" Sith. I determine this mainly by how much they achieved within their own time, and I don't think the OP completely debunks and destroys the argument that Vitiate is equal or greater than Palpatine to the point where people will "stop comparing Vitiate to Palpatine."

For example, Napoleon and his Empire and armies would completely destroy the Empire and armies of Alexander the Great, but does that make him a "better" general? Does that mean that we should stop comparing the two?

I could create a huge list of Vitiate's feats and accomplishments and battle prowess, but that does not do anything to progress the argument unless I then compare the two.

So in the end, I don't think your post will or even should cause people to stop comparing the two, as well written as it was!
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Darth_Wicked's Avatar


Darth_Wicked
04.16.2013 , 02:33 PM | #3
Quote:
Now there people, whatever Vitiate has done. Sidious has done and even then more(I didn't even really post the bigger things) you have multiple sources stating Sidious is the most powerful sith lord ever, so enough with this
Was Palpatine able to rule and / or manage an empire during 1300(!!!) years? Pretty sure we all know the answer to that.
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Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
04.16.2013 , 02:41 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Swissbob View Post
Well, It's quite obvious a lot of work went into this! To which I say: Well done!

Usually I would very strongly side with Vitiate, but this post is a very good one, a great read, and helped me to better appreciate Palpatine. So again, well done!

However, all of this info alone does not put the entire argument to rest. This is a great compilation of Palpatine feats and achievements, but it does not "prove" that Palpatine is "better" than Vitiate.

Personally I believe that as time goes on, generally the Sith Lords get more and more powerful. This is because the entire Sith Philosophy is about survival of the fittest, even going so far as to have the apprentice kill their own masters to show that they are stronger. So, if we're talking a one-on-one duel between these two, I would agree that yes, Palpatine would be the probable victor.

However, 1v1 duels are not how I determine who is the "better" Sith. I determine this mainly by how much they achieved within their own time, and I don't think the OP completely debunks and destroys the argument that Vitiate is equal or greater than Palpatine to the point where people will "Stop comparing Vitiate to Palpatine."

I could create a huge list of Vitiate's feats and accomplishments and battle prowess, but that does not do anything to progress the argument unless I then compare the two.

So in the end, I don't think your post will or even should cause people to stop comparing the two, as well written as it was.
Well I can post more stuff for Sidious(far more), but the quotes pretty much prove that Sidious > Vitiate....I don't see how anyone can argue, against multiple sources that are stating pretty much the exact same thing.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

marcelo_sdk's Avatar


marcelo_sdk
04.16.2013 , 02:50 PM | #5
Lol Wolfinin, what brought this sudden fury to your heart?

But seriously, all you said about Sidious is true, he is a Black Hole of the Dark Side, as stated by Dooku. But we all know that some EU materials like to overpower some characters, especially the ones from the movies. Sidious is not unbeatable, and the statement "most powerful Sith Lord of all times", wich is taken as fact, doesn't reffer only to his force powers.

As for Vitiate, I agree that Sidious is stronger, but you underestimate him a lot. And he achieved some objectives who Sidious was not even close to. He lived for more than 1300 years (for now), as Sidious lived for what, 93 if we consider the death of his last clone body as his final death. We know immortality was the main goal of almost all Sith Lords, Palptine especially. So in this matter, Vitiate was far more succesful.

And Palpatine, as near brought the Jedi and the Republic to an end, ruled an Empire who lasted for 3 decades (again, considering his final death at 11ABY). Vitiate ruled more than mileenia, and we don't know when his rule truly ended.

So, we don't have to throw Vitiate to trash just to praise Sidious. Both were great, powerful and accomplished amazing things. Period.
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Swissbob's Avatar


Swissbob
04.16.2013 , 02:55 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Well I can post more stuff for Sidious(far more), but the quotes pretty much prove that Sidious > Vitiate....I don't see how anyone can argue, against multiple sources that are stating pretty much the exact same thing.
Yes, I bet you can post more things on Sidious, as the EU on Sidious is huge.

But that misses the majority of my point. The sheer volume and impressiveness of his feats mean very little if you don't then compare them to Vitiate.

The people on Vitiate's side of the argument can make a huge list of amazing feats and accomplishments that Vitiate had as well, and it's only through comparing the two lists that we can discuss who is the "better" Sith Lord.

Presenting one huge list focusing on just one of the contenders and then stating:

"This list is so long and so impressive that everyone should stop debating and agree that Sidious wins," is not a successful way present an argument.

While your post is very impressive and shows how powerful Palpatine is, it isn't the be-all, end-all of the debate and it doesn't and shouldn't make people stop comparing the two.
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Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
04.16.2013 , 02:56 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by marcelo_sdk View Post
Lol Wolfinin, what brought this sudden fury to your heart?

But seriously, all you said about Sidious is true, he is a Black Hole of the Dark Side, as stated by Dooku. But we all know that some EU materials like to overpower some characters, especially the ones from the movies. Sidious is not unbeatable, and the statement "most powerful Sith Lord of all times", wich is taken as fact, doesn't reffer only to his force powers.

As for Vitiate, I agree that Sidious is stronger, but you underestimate him a lot. And he achieved some objectives who Sidious was not even close to. He lived for more than 1300 years (for now), as Sidious lived for what, 93 if we consider the death of his last clone body as his final death. We know immortality was the main goal of almost all Sith Lords, Palptine especially. So in this matter, Vitiate was far more succesful.

And Palpatine, as near brought the Jedi and the Republic to an end, ruled an Empire who lasted for 3 decades (again, considering his final death at 11ABY). Vitiate ruled more than mileenia, and we don't know when his rule truly ended.

So, we don't have to throw Vitiate to trash just to praise Sidious. Both were great, powerful and accomplished amazing things. Period.
I am not saying Vitiate was weak, but comparing accomplishments/feats and the like, though the main goal for the Sith was the eradication of the Jedi Order which Sidious did accomplish, immortality(which Sidious did accomplish) was only something a couple of Sith Lords wanted. Sidious has done far more, as per the EU...a side note. People need to stop acting like the movies =/= EU, its all one connected universe the movies only show a small portion to a character overall.

Quote:
Yes, I bet you can post more things on Sidious, as the EU on Sidious is huge.

But that misses the majority of my point. The sheer volume and impressiveness of his feats mean very little if you don't then compare them to Vitiate.

The people on Vitiate's side of the argument can make a huge list of amazing feats and accomplishments that Vitiate had as well, and it's only through comparing the two lists that we can discuss who is the "better" Sith Lord.
Ok then Swiss, give me a list of Vitiate's accomplishments/feats.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Darth_Wicked's Avatar


Darth_Wicked
04.16.2013 , 03:00 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Swissbob View Post
Yes, I bet you can post more things on Sidious, as the EU on Sidious is huge.

But that misses the majority of my point. The sheer volume and impressiveness of his feats mean very little if you don't then compare them to Vitiate.

The people on Vitiate's side of the argument can make a huge list of amazing feats and accomplishments that Vitiate had as well, and it's only through comparing the two lists that we can discuss who is the "better" Sith Lord.

Presenting one huge list focusing on just one of the contenders and then stating:

"This list is so long and so impressive that everyone should stop debating and agree that Sidious wins," is not a successful way present an argument.

While your post is very impressive and shows how powerful Palpatine is, it isn't the be-all, end-all of the debate and it doesn't and shouldn't make people stop comparing the two.
Far more complicated though, since one character has been around for 30(!!!) years at least, while the other first got a name... Less than two years ago. Even so, as I said in my first post and others after, if ruling an empire for 1300 years is not impressive, not to mention something Palpatine was never able to achieve, I dunno what is.

Also, anyone who's been able to play the game and see what Palpatine was in the movies and in the EU, will quickly realize that one was a far more cunning and devious Sith, while the other, given the fact he lived for at least 1300 years, was more of a master of the Dark Arts. Still, to each his own... Some people just prefer to wear an eye patch, whenever it's convenient.
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Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
04.16.2013 , 03:07 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Wicked View Post
Was Palpatine able to rule and / or manage an empire during 1300(!!!) years? Pretty sure we all know the answer to that.
An Empire that was much smaller than the GALACTIC Empire, and it also hid in the shadows. Palpatine's Empire was in control of most of the known galaxy, and even spread into the Unknown Regions.

Also, please point me to all of Vitiate's Super Star Destroyers, Death Stars, Eclipse Star Destroyers, World Devastators, Omega Frosts etc.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

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Darth_Wicked
04.16.2013 , 03:11 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
An Empire that was much smaller than the GALACTIC Empire, and it also hid in the shadows. Palpatine's Empire was in control of most of the known galaxy, and even spread into the Unknown Regions.

Also, please point me to all of Vitiate's Super Star Destroyers, Death Stars, Eclipse Star Destroyers, World Devastators, Omega Frosts etc.
Hmmm... What was the Sun Razer then? The Gauntlet, the Emperor's Shadow, the Ascendant Spear, The Silencer and The Undying...?! Didn't get to read Lost Suns, did you?

EDIT:

Also, grats on the fact that you ignored the 1300 years of existence Vitiate was able to achieve, unlike Sidious, something that even his master, Darth Plagueis, kinda envied.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Kaliyo Djannis
Ash in the soil and a gun in my hands. Let's go.