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I have lost my raid spot... thanks to Bioware.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
I have lost my raid spot... thanks to Bioware.

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
04.05.2013 , 12:34 PM | #51
we have an assassin in our guild that was also able to keep up with what are statistically better classes, and we were all impressed that he was one of the few assassins that were able to pull the numbers he was pulling. when he went onto the pts to test out the new madness build, he was sorely disappointed by the new rotation and the low numbers he was getting. he has vowed to never use his assassin again. it was not because our GM said he couldn't, it was because he would be ashamed of the class he fell in love with.

i can sypathize with this as my favorite character is a scrapper scoundrel, which has the lowest dps in the game right now... however, the guild let me bring it and we were able to clear the content just fine, and i was keeping up with other classes that were statistically better dpsers than my class... and i got stealth rez's for days.

i understand having to replace you if your on the bottom of the charts and the group is hitting enrage... but until that happens, you should not be losing your raid spot.

RLWalker's Avatar


RLWalker
04.05.2013 , 12:35 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Sosajoshua View Post
Grump you are in Torva nex? So wed be on the same server have you noticed this on Jedi Covenant?
I'm on JC and we have one deception assassin. Since the nerf to 16-man Stormcaller and Kephess there aren't any strict dps checks in the game so it doesn't matter a lot. That being said it is preferential to bring pretty much any other dps class on live and it will get worse in 2.0.

- Madness does OK on live but looked terrible on PTS.
- Deception/madness have virtually no aoe dps to speak of. (5 target death field is an improvement I guess)
- Decepetion will be relatively better in 2.0 but has to use force cloak to maximize dps, making one of the better utilities unavailable (out of combat res).

If there are any strict dps checks in 2.0, assassins will be the first to drop. Keep in mind that a very popular dps class (powertech) will not be utterly amazing in 2.0 so there will probably be reasonable competition for raid spots. It doesn't change the fact that marauders are still the best dps class and best dps utility (bloodthirst).

Sosajoshua's Avatar


Sosajoshua
04.05.2013 , 01:07 PM | #53
@Grumpy and RLWalker
Okay so i am not the only one who has seen this too. Its a shame as i never played Sin/Shadow til recently i never seemed to put things together. They used to be all around us but now only the really good DPS ones stay (there are always TankSins around so whateve lol). I know TN is a good guild having run with you guys a few times and knowing some of your members and its good to know in general at least there are still some around. Itd be nice to see a resurgence of them in raid groups.

@dipstick
Idk is Scrapped is the worse as im now playing Advanced Prototype which is fun but so far behind my previous usage of Pyro and lower DPS than my Madness and Lethality specs. Also it seems it got a useless nerf inthe 3/14 PTS note. However, like Sins i recognize i only see DPS operatives in PvP.

Anyways thanks for the info all
<A Wretched Hive> Jedi Covenant Rhaegis, Madness Sorcerer / Youngdragon, Advanced Proto-tech / Kha'leesi, Engineering Sniper / Dragonbane, Vengence Juggernaut

Dougdluxx's Avatar


Dougdluxx
04.05.2013 , 10:24 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
Make a merc or sniper, thank me later. Every time I see we have weaker heals, ranged dps is safest option to avoid damage and focus on dsping. if you lost your spot because of changes that didn't hit live yet, then i would change that guild.
No one noticed death mark is increased? Yes, energy regen loss is a b***.


1.Good player that want's to do good raiding will adapt.
2.Don't give me that 'you don't have time to make other chars' as you seem to be hardcore raider (If you lost your spot, you have time to level :P)
3.wait for it to hit live, if will underperform, I'm sure class will be balanced.
4.any smart leader will take smart player over extra 5% damage.
5.rething your guild. I mean really. If I would hear that from my GL, I would hit /gquit so fast, it would make his head spin. and then again on my other 50's and other alts..

I fully agree. If your guild leader dropped you because they THINK your class possibly may not have as high of a dps percentage as it does now, and thinks that they should bring another member that probably isn't as fully adjusted to the guilds playstyle as you, he is an idiot or it was an excuse to get rid of you nicely because you as a player aren't good enough (not what I am implying btw.) So yea, if he was smart, he would have you reroll since he knows you are a good dedicated raider, if you really are, or he would at least wait till live hits and give you a chance. I have seen plenty of instances in MMOs where a class or a certain spec was theoretically placed at the bottom the dps, but a few select people still had the best dmg IN THE WORLD, with said class or spec. And #4, smart players are better than higher dps from a bad player. Pressing buttons in order is easy, knowing how to improvise the order when completing fight mechanics is harder. With that said, quitting an MMO is never a bad thing lol. This could be your lucky break!

dcgregorya's Avatar


dcgregorya
04.06.2013 , 10:15 PM | #55
Honestly, my take on this is that the OP is making this up. The day "hard core" marauders are getting outparsed consistently by a madness assassin is the day all marauders delete.

Anyway, call me cynical but I think he posted this just as a premature and exaggerated "nerf whine". Right now if you're in a "hardcore" guild, you've already rerolled marauder or sniper for your DPS raid toon and you're using your sin for tanking and your operative for heals.

2.0 won't change that people who won't settle for 2nd still won't settle for 2nd.

Neoforcer's Avatar


Neoforcer
04.07.2013 , 01:04 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by ratiphi View Post
I used to be one of the top dps in my guild. I was taken to almost every HM and NM operation as melee dps. As a madness Assassin I could always out dps marauders on a single target. Then the PTS came out. Assassins got completely screwed up by Bioware. Now my guild's raid leader (and myself) have no idea how madness DPS is going to fair at level 55. Therefore, I have officially lost my raid spot. In order to get my raid spot back again I have to wait and see if the class is even viable anymore at 55 and then prove myself all over again to my guild. All confidence in my class has been shot. I am trying to figure out if I even want to continue playing this game. Thanks Bioware. You really screwed me over this time.

Then your raid leader would not be well informed on the class yes madness rotation changed. Maul is no longer viable in the rotation. Last i saw on pts on MOX parser madness was 2450 dps per sec. while deception was 2650 dps pers sec. That is not bad dps also the top dog on pts already got a nerf before 2.0 goes final. Before they closed the threads on pts there was a post of different parsers and sin was not at the bottom of the list in dps.

Majspuffen's Avatar


Majspuffen
04.07.2013 , 02:24 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by PerKIA View Post
I wished BW could be honest about it, Assassins are strictly a PvP class and is not meant to be used in PvE. Every change to the class skills, abilities and mechanics are made with PvP in mind and that is not going to change.
From the looks of it, im not going to be able to use my Deception Assassin in an operation, Madness is out to.

Im not in "hardcore" progression guild, but when you know that the only thing you bring to the table is mediocre DPS and absolutley no utility whatsoever, i dont feel its fair to the other members of the group.
If that was true, then their changes makes no sense. Right now, madness is a great spec for pvp. Although not good enough to be granted guaranteed RWZ spots... but if played properly, they provide a ton to their team. In 2.0, all of that disappears. They've been reduced to AoE dotters.

As for deception? Meh. Maybe.

ratiphi's Avatar


ratiphi
04.08.2013 , 06:58 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by dcgregorya View Post
Honestly, my take on this is that the OP is making this up. The day "hard core" marauders are getting outparsed consistently by a madness assassin is the day all marauders delete.

Anyway, call me cynical but I think he posted this just as a premature and exaggerated "nerf whine". Right now if you're in a "hardcore" guild, you've already rerolled marauder or sniper for your DPS raid toon and you're using your sin for tanking and your operative for heals.

2.0 won't change that people who won't settle for 2nd still won't settle for 2nd.
I wish I could prove it to you but Im not making this up. Madness Assassins, when played well, can put out some good numbers. I am well aware that Marauders have parsed, do parse, and always will parse higher than Assassins. But that did not stop me from doing better single target damage. Im not saying my DPS was higher, but at the end of the boss fights I was usually on top. This is mostly due to the fact that I know how to play my class well. I can preload 1 dot, and DF from range, while Im running to my next target. Believe me or not, it doesnt matter. I just hope that my skill + the nerfed Madness Assassin can keep me in a raid spot after the expansion releases.
50 Sith Assassin

PPAlien's Avatar


PPAlien
04.09.2013 , 07:26 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by ratiphi View Post
I wish I could prove it to you but Im not making this up. Madness Assassins, when played well, can put out some good numbers. I am well aware that Marauders have parsed, do parse, and always will parse higher than Assassins. But that did not stop me from doing better single target damage. Im not saying my DPS was higher, but at the end of the boss fights I was usually on top. This is mostly due to the fact that I know how to play my class well. I can preload 1 dot, and DF from range, while Im running to my next target. Believe me or not, it doesnt matter. I just hope that my skill + the nerfed Madness Assassin can keep me in a raid spot after the expansion releases.
It's funny how people still don't seem to understand this. Pre 2.0, a well played shadow/assassin could keep up with 99% of players in a raid dps situation if not beat them due to raid wide buffs (armor debuff, inspiration etc.) and being able to use fight mechanics to your advantage, ie. ranged pre-dots before a burn phase, spinning strike <30%. Of course on a dummy they didn't keep up because they don't have any of these things available.

Now let's all play 2.0 and test/parse/raid until we find out the real situation of our dps. Whether we are only good below 30% or not, it's probably not going to matter in the long run anyway. (now if only they increased phase walk to unlimited distance! :P)

JamieKirby's Avatar


JamieKirby
04.09.2013 , 08:44 PM | #60
the problem is that everyone strives to do the best that the class can do and if its overpowered, players ***** about it, it gets nerfed and then players complain its useless and it gets buffed, then its about being too strong, its a never ending cycle, this is why single player games are so much more enjoyable. :-)