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Yoda vs Darth Sidious fight (episode III)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Yoda vs Darth Sidious fight (episode III)

zzoorrzz's Avatar


zzoorrzz
03.30.2013 , 11:37 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Are you implying that Ian Mcdiarmid can't act?! ! No but really...Ian wanted to do all his own things, he didn't want a stunt double so...there you go, I mean the guy is old.
He was one of the best things in the new trilogy IMO, just perfect performance, but - considering his lightsaber fights, he's really too old (not for a sith, but for a human actor playing sith). Therefore I think they should have useds a younger double tranied in sword combat for the lightsaber fights and use the actor only when they show the face.

But that doesn't apply only for Yoda fight, but also to the "office" fight already mentioned here and maybe some more.

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.30.2013 , 04:27 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by zzoorrzz View Post
He was one of the best things in the new trilogy IMO, just perfect performance, but - considering his lightsaber fights, he's really too old (not for a sith, but for a human actor playing sith). Therefore I think they should have useds a younger double tranied in sword combat for the lightsaber fights and use the actor only when they show the face.

But that doesn't apply only for Yoda fight, but also to the "office" fight already mentioned here and maybe some more.
Or you know, just not had him sword fight. He's the Emperor! He should have laughed and just killed the Jedi with the Force.
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
It was suppose to be from the viewpoint, that Sidious was moving too fast for them to react. Hence why they just seem to stand there.
He was moving pretty slowly in the film. I refuse to accept the feeble attempts by the author of the novelization to retroactively explain that what we saw on screen was not actually what happened. None of the subtext he attributes to Sidious' fights was ever implied or shown in the film, which is really what we're going on here.
Quote: Originally Posted by jovianus View Post
That kind of reeks of laziness. Why not just change the fight scene to make it interesting, instead of the silliness we see in the movies and trying to patch it up with the book saying "That's not actually what happened."

"Oh sure, he calls himself Palpatine and seems to be a human Sith Lord, but he's actually Morba, the Space Queen from Dimension X. Nevermind that no such thing was ever seen or mentioned in the movie."
^What this guy said. The novel should be used to explore background and scenes we didn't see, things there wasn't time to show in the film, if it explores anything of that nature at all. Quite honestly, a novelization of a film is quite lame to begin with.

Yoda and Sidious probably should not have fought. I doubt either of them would be willing to let the other escape alive from that fight, and for Yoda to suddenly decide, "Into exile, I must go" after a fairly even fight is an absurd cop out for the sake of plot convenience. Yoda probably should have been like, "I'm too old, Obi-Wan. We cannot hope to face the Emperor after the way he slaughtered Mace and those other Jedi. You take out Vader and we'll train his kids to kill the Emperor."
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

jovianus's Avatar


jovianus
03.30.2013 , 05:00 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel View Post
^What this guy said. The novel should be used to explore background and scenes we didn't see, things there wasn't time to show in the film, if it explores anything of that nature at all. Quite honestly, a novelization of a film is quite lame to begin with.
I think another issue is that a lot of people, in fact I'd hazard to say the vast majority of 'Star Wars Fans', are fans of the movies period, who probably never have and never will pick up a Star Wars novel. So what appears on screen is the story of Star Wars, and what they saw is a bunch of Jedi Masters standing there like slackjawed idiots while Palpatine cut them down, and Yoda running away and letting the bad guy win.

Crawelc's Avatar


Crawelc
03.30.2013 , 05:06 PM | #14
Are we ignoring the corkscrew flp across the room? He didnt exactly dodder around like an invalid in the move. In the scene with all the jedi or the fight with yoda
Imprimis <Fight><Redemption><Conquest>
All Imprimis All the time.

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.30.2013 , 08:18 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Crawelc View Post
Are we ignoring the corkscrew flp across the room? He didnt exactly dodder around like an invalid in the move. In the scene with all the jedi or the fight with yoda
Wait, yes he did. He jumps forward and stops about six feet in front of them. Then he snarls, draws back, and THEN stabs the first Jedi. There is a lag between their deaths, it was really quite pathetic.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

Doctoglethorpe's Avatar


Doctoglethorpe
03.30.2013 , 08:57 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel View Post

He was moving pretty slowly in the film. I refuse to accept the feeble attempts by the author of the novelization to retroactively explain that what we saw on screen was not actually what happened. None of the subtext he attributes to Sidious' fights was ever implied or shown in the film, which is really what we're going on here.
Retroactive? Okay see your just flat out of context now. The novelization was written based on the screen play, not the film itself, and written at the same time the film was produced, not after.

The author wasn't trying to explain the scenes in new light, he was explaining them simply how he interpreted them based on the screen play. Which leads me to believe the screen play was either lacking to begin with and he had to compensate for it to make the book not suck or the screen play was much better then the final product Georgie produced. Either way, Lucas is to blame. He's a ****in hack these days and they shouldn't of let him have so much control over the PT. Either his screen play sucked, his directorial ability sucked, or both. The book makes up for it with a competent author telling the story in a way that isn't complete garbage. Giving the nessisary details so that things make sense, ignoring the **** thats worthless fluff, and making us actually understand the characters rather then just witness them.

And I hear the excuse a lot that its hard to do that in a movie, hard to show what characters are feelings. Yeah, it is hard, but its not impossible. There are very good directors around that can and do pull it off. George isn't one of them. He used to be good, but not anymore. I wish people would stop giving him a free pass like its impossible for movies to be as deep as books.

Crawelc's Avatar


Crawelc
03.30.2013 , 10:16 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Ventessel View Post
Wait, yes he did. He jumps forward and stops about six feet in front of them. Then he snarls, draws back, and THEN stabs the first Jedi. There is a lag between their deaths, it was really quite pathetic.
16 seconds is how long it takes him to leap across the room and kill 3 jedi masters. What more do you want?
Imprimis <Fight><Redemption><Conquest>
All Imprimis All the time.

falcon_Xtreme's Avatar


falcon_Xtreme
03.31.2013 , 12:11 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by zzoorrzz View Post
I already thought there was something wrong about that fight back then when I saw it. Now I watched the whole thing again and the feeling came back. I mean, it seemed like Yoda was winning the fight, then he simply walks away and says he failed? Weird. If he stayed there, he would win no doubt.
lets review ..... each time Yoda jumped to a senate pod, he had to evade, (at one stage igniting and then shutting down his lightsaber) until finally enough was enough, he stopped the pod and flung it back at palatine , thus giving him the time he needed to close the gap ( his objective), which let to the showdown of force mastery.

it could have gone either way. except it didn't. palpatine had the good fortune of holding on to the pod and maintaining his high ground, Yoda even with his desperation (nails sc****** the pod on the way down) was effectively put back to square one....and flight become the better option. (especially given the destruction of the jedi through order 66) flee and rebuild, or stay and be destroyed. you don't pee into the wind. it gets messy.
REDZONE & PROUD!

Lodril's Avatar


Lodril
03.31.2013 , 01:00 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by zzoorrzz View Post
If he stayed there, he would win no doubt.
No, Palpatine spent almost the whole fight laughing at him.

The Jedi are fearsome opponents because they can see a few seconds into the future, and for centuries, they practiced their martial styles based on that assumption. The movies mention several times that the Dark side obscures this prescience, which is probably why Jedi, who have lightning fast reflexes in every other scene, fumble so easily when faced with someone they have trouble predicting. They are effectively fighting with blinders on. I really think the only reason Windu lasted as long as he did was because Palpatine had to keep him alive long enough for Anakin to get there and witness the attack. As soon as he did, and made his choice, the fight was over.

Moreover, despite Yoda's skill and acrobatics, his big moves in that fight are all defensive. Sure, he catches and returns a senate pod, but doesn't throw any of his own because he's too busy dodging them. He temporarily stalls the lightning, but basically ends up doing as much harm to himself as he does to his opponent in the attempt. He barely manages to hold his own against an opponent who spends the entire fight bemused by the effort, and at worst looks annoyed that the little green Jedi isn't dead yet. Sidious, by the way, doesn't even need to fight Yoda on his own, since he is the current head of state and can call in plenty of help whenever he wants it... but he never does, because he's not worried.

Ultimately, Yoda had no chance in that fight, because even if he could have turned things around, Sidious would simply call in more guards until the Jedi was overwhelmed by the combination of traditional firepower and Sith magic. Yoda realized that, and fled, knowing he stood no chance long term. One of his comments earlier was about too many Jedi being filled with hubris, and had he shared that weakness, he no doubt would have shared their fate.


Honestly, it was a stupid plan to begin with; gee, I don't like the current elected official, so I'll just wander into his office and murder him, and then everything will be fine. It was almost as stupid a plan as abruptly sending a bunch of Jedi to arrest him... Sidious won that fight the moment he was elected Supreme Chancellor at the end of Episode I, and everything after that was just the Jedi slowly realizing they'd already lost.

Doctoglethorpe's Avatar


Doctoglethorpe
03.31.2013 , 01:36 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Lodril View Post
I really think the only reason Windu lasted as long as he did was because Palpatine had to keep him alive long enough for Anakin to get there and witness the attack.
You underestimate Vaapad.