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Darth Malgus vs Darth Bane vs Darth Vader

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Darth Malgus vs Darth Bane vs Darth Vader

Preventer-Blaze's Avatar


Preventer-Blaze
03.28.2013 , 09:26 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by saremun View Post
i just don't get why people are so fond of Vader, i mean he is the lowest grade of Dark lords of the sith and he .sucked so much that Luke who was not properly trained defeated him.
The problem is not people that are "so fond" of Vader. The problem are the people who doesn't know much about star wars lore. Many people just see the movies and get conclusion based alone in what they see (or they think they see).

Another thing: stop this nonsense about Luke not being properly trained. He was full trained by two of the most powerful and wise Jedi of the Order that have become know for being the most powerful of the time.
Luke was the son of the Chosen One, he was so powerful that you could see that he become a Jedi Knight faster than many others, in those Dark Times that the Dark Side was all around. And remember, Darth Vader was full of emotions in the fight: "I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate." - Luke

The thing is, The Rule of Two was stabilized so that the apprentice will always be more powerful than the master. That alone, makes they most powerful than the generation before them. People always think that video games mechanics are canon (Revan, Exile, Garen Malek/Secret Apprentice doing all those stuffs in the monitor, just like the characters of swtor, besides the cutscenes). We have to understand different factors about Darth Vader, who was said to being most powerful than any Sith before him (By Darth Sidious himself). Many people think that Darth Maul is not All of that, let alone Darh Tyrannus or Asajj Ventress.

The thing is, Darth Vader would have become more powerful than Darth Sidious, if he had control over his emotions (he always blamed himself for what he have become, for "killing" his wife and unborn son and what would have beeen). This was the motive why Darth Sidious kept him along, The Emperor believed that Darth Vader could achieve the Full potential of The Chosen One, but saddly, Vader failed in doing so (just like as a Jedi). But some people think that makes him less powerful than others before him. Darth Vader from Dark Age (pos-Epi III) is much more powerful than Darth Vader Epi III. That was not always the case, of course. His emotions wasn't in check, he wasn't in control of his Suit (Sith Alchemy suit, if my memory serves right). But he was adapting with the teachings of his master and by himself. Hell, Vader was kept alive after having all his limbs ript apart and being burn just by his hatred and darkside of the Force.

None of you have to believe in me (I know many will never), that is not what I'm trying to do. Just review the lore, see again the movies and feel what in right in front of you, see the novels, see more lore and so on. You guys forget that he failed, but was still more than 80% of the most powerful Sith we ever knew, that was Darth Sidious.

I could go again and again, but I'll let this:
"Search your feelings, you know it to be true!"

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
03.28.2013 , 09:33 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by saremun View Post
i just don't get why people are so fond of Vader, i mean he is the lowest grade of Dark lords of the sith and he .sucked so much that Luke who was not properly trained defeated him.
No, no NO. Vader wasn't a low grade Sith Lord, far from that infact. As for Luke not being properly trained?...Uhh..no, Luke was fully trained by ROTJ...he may not have had a master guiding him for very long but he didn't need one, he learned from journals and the like, self trained and so on. Vader and Luke fought as perfect equals in their final duel, until of course the last bit.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Oxades's Avatar


Oxades
03.28.2013 , 01:47 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Preventer-Blaze View Post
The thing is, Darth Vader would have become more powerful than Darth Sidious, if he had control over his emotions (he always blamed himself for what he have become, for "killing" his wife and unborn son and what would have beeen). This was the motive why Darth Sidious kept him along, The Emperor believed that Darth Vader could achieve the Full potential of The Chosen One,
Itís funny you would believe this when per lore Vader lost a lot of his power when he became a cyborg and could never be as powerful as Sidious. Shoot, he wasnít even able to use force lightning.

Now donít get me wrong Vader was still one of if not the greatest duelist of his time but compared to Malgus? Will letís give Malgus some credit. Master duelist, Veteran of a 30 year war, sacked the Jedi temple. In fact I havenít see or read anything that Vader could do that Malgus couldnít and as stated above Vader didnít have control over his emotions but Malgus did. He even killed his girlfriend and used her memory to full his anger and gain more power.

Now if someone can point to something that Darth Vader did that shows he could beat Malgus and Bane then Iíll listen but just saying that Anakin Skywalker had the potential to be the most powerful Jedi/Sith ever doesnít count. Anakinís story is about how great he could have been but never was.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
03.28.2013 , 02:09 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Oxades View Post
Itís funny you would believe this when per lore Vader lost a lot of his power when he became a cyborg and could never be as powerful as Sidious. Shoot, he wasnít even able to use force lightning.

Now donít get me wrong Vader was still one of if not the greatest duelist of his time but compared to Malgus? Will letís give Malgus some credit. Master duelist, Veteran of a 30 year war, sacked the Jedi temple. In fact I havenít see or read anything that Vader could do that Malgus couldnít and as stated above Vader didnít have control over his emotions but Malgus did. He even killed his girlfriend and used her memory to full his anger and gain more power.

Now if someone can point to something that Darth Vader did that shows he could beat Malgus and Bane then Iíll listen but just saying that Anakin Skywalker had the potential to be the most powerful Jedi/Sith ever doesnít count. Anakinís story is about how great he could have been but never was.
He lost his power sure...but its never stated in what way he lost it. Its the whole him having the power within, but never realizing it.

Anyway...you got it the other way around, Malgus is pretty much an exact copy of Vader only difference is..Vader is better then Malgus in every aspect. Has Malgus taken on 8 Jedi Knights/Masters at once before? Has he collapsed buildings and survived for days under them? Has he ever willed himself back to life? Destroy a base on his own? Moved starships? Survive huge explosions? Crushed enormous droids and knock over huge trees? Take on a Jedi that could teleport/phase through objects?

I can post evidence of all of this, if you like.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Preventer-Blaze's Avatar


Preventer-Blaze
03.28.2013 , 02:15 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Oxades View Post
Itís funny you would believe this when per lore Vader lost a lot of his power when he became a cyborg and could never be as powerful as Sidious. Shoot, he wasnít even able to use force lightning.

Now donít get me wrong Vader was still one of if not the greatest duelist of his time but compared to Malgus? Will letís give Malgus some credit. Master duelist, Veteran of a 30 year war, sacked the Jedi temple. In fact I havenít see or read anything that Vader could do that Malgus couldnít and as stated above Vader didnít have control over his emotions but Malgus did. He even killed his girlfriend and used her memory to full his anger and gain more power.

Now if someone can point to something that Darth Vader did that shows he could beat Malgus and Bane then Iíll listen but just saying that Anakin Skywalker had the potential to be the most powerful Jedi/Sith ever doesnít count. Anakinís story is about how great he could have been but never was.
If you read again, you'll see that I recomend some people to study more about the lore. Novels are here and there, this is good, it's just reading a book or two.
Darth Sidious states this, not me (even if I, myself, can't believe that Darth Vader could turn into That, not for him being a Cyborg, but for him being a Sith Lord and not a Jedi, but I know that I'm wrong, as the lore per se states that Darth Vader, if under control of his emotions, indeed could reaweken the full potential within).
Darth Malgus was great in HIS time. Know the difference? Vader was around in a time when the Jedi Order were much more powerful than any other before. Malgus, Revan, Bane... The people need to understand that the Jedi Order become much more than anything ever seen, just like the Sith Order under the Rule of Two. The problem with Bane, is that he was the first. We know that he was really right in doing so, that makes things better to the Sith, but even if he did not, well... Palpatine was born, someone who would become a Sith even if the Sith were longer extint.

But this is about Malgus, eh? Darth Vader defeated one of the finest duelist of the time, Cin Drallig. He was master of all know forms. Even his student fell to Vader at this time. His master was none other than Grandmaster Yoda and, even with this, even being an extreme powerful duelist in the temple, Darth Vader (epi III, more weak than Vader Epi IV and beyond) still defeat him. Know that we are talking about the freaking time when the Jedi Order become under the protection of the bests Jedi the Galaxy know, know that even if he indeed failed in becoming what both Sidious and Obi-wan wanted, he still become much more powerful than any other before. Again, don't want to believe in me? Fine, just read/see the movie and see what Darth Sidious think about this man you think that Darth Malgus could handle. Know that Darth Vader indeed use Force Lightning (yeah, with help, but he indeed could use it). Know that he was the man who became know as one of (I don't recall if the best) Jedi Killer in history (not Jedi of previous Era, but Jedi of HIS Era). The forms became much more refined, the force powers more pure..

I can go on if you want, but I don't think you'll ever listen. You have the right to disagree, of course, but know that I too have the right to point you this direction, that can show you the point in why Darth Vader would beat Darth Malgus.

Remember, 80% of the most powerful Sith Lord of Galactic history is much more than any of them.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
03.28.2013 , 02:22 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Preventer-Blaze View Post
Know that Darth Vader indeed use Force Lightning (yeah, with help, but he indeed could use it).
Well it was actually Kinetite Vader used not lighting. But am sure that Splinter of the Mind's Eye is N-canon anyway, so moving on here..
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Preventer-Blaze's Avatar


Preventer-Blaze
03.28.2013 , 02:26 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Well it was actually Kinetite Vader used not lighting. But am sure that Splinter of the Mind's Eye is N-canon anyway, so moving on here..
Against Luke? Was lightning if I recall, with the help of an crystal. In the second novel of The Force Unleashed, I don't recall if he used it (with the help of the storm) against the secret apprentice or if he just used another Force Power.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
03.28.2013 , 02:32 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Preventer-Blaze View Post
Against Luke? Was lightning if I recall, with the help of an crystal. In the second novel of The Force Unleashed, I don't recall if he used it (with the help of the storm) against the secret apprentice or if he just used another Force Power.
It was Kinetite yes.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kinetite

As for TFU, he used Force Destruction. But anyway the Kinetite thing doesn't matter, that story is N-canon. Its not like he needs it anyway.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Preventer-Blaze's Avatar


Preventer-Blaze
03.28.2013 , 02:44 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
It was Kinetite yes.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kinetite

As for TFU, he used Force Destruction. But anyway the Kinetite thing doesn't matter, that story is N-canon. Its not like he needs it anyway.
It's just that in Star Wars The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader we have:

"as the battle wore on, Vader found himself breathing
hard through his respirator. But then, thanks to his proximity to the force-crystal he felt a sudden surge of the power of the dark side, allowing him to project lightning from his fingertips for the first time in his life. He hurled
Force-energized lightning at Skywalker, but his young opponent deflected the blast."

I don't recall reading kinetite in the book, I'll read again (after finishing the trilogy of Bane and Darth Plagueis again). But well, even so, I like the name, know any other who have used Kinetite for me to know more about this?

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
03.28.2013 , 02:50 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Preventer-Blaze View Post
It's just that in Star Wars The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader we have:

"as the battle wore on, Vader found himself breathing
hard through his respirator. But then, thanks to his proximity to the force-crystal he felt a sudden surge of the power of the dark side, allowing him to project lightning from his fingertips for the first time in his life. He hurled
Force-energized lightning at Skywalker, but his young opponent deflected the blast."

I don't recall reading kinetite in the book, I'll read again (after finishing the trilogy of Bane and Darth Plagueis again). But well, even so, I like the name, know any other who have used Kinetite for me to know more about this?
Well then those are conflicting sources which have yet to be resolved cause Vader can't do Force Lighting so....meh. As for other users? Nope can't recall. Though noting its just some Force Power of some kind.

But again, it doesn't matter as Vader doesn't have the crystal here nor does he really need it.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.