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How would Darth Maul do in TOR

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
How would Darth Maul do in TOR

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.22.2013 , 08:49 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Kharnamatic View Post
The Jedi/Sith of the PT were truly pitiful and were no match for blasters. As we saw in the Phantom Menace one shileded droideka/destroyer droid is the equal of a Jedi Master like Qui-Gon. Jedi died en masse trying to save Obi-Wan in the Geonosis Arena. It is no wonder the Jedi Order was wiped out by clones and the Republic needed clones in the first place. The Jedi had neglected their ranged force powers and focused almost exclusively on lightsaber training, which due to simple geometry of lines cannot deflect volley fire (3 or more bolts hitting at the same time). The massed ranks of clone troopers that assaulted the Jedi Temple in Ep III would have been sitting ducks for ranged force AoE attacks. But instead of using their powers to throw the troopers around like ragdolls or burn them to a crisp with arcing lightning attacks, the jedi brought a knife to a gunfight.

Jedi using lightsabers when they have magic (Force) makes as much sense as speccing a stereotypical mage for melee combat.
Heh, I love to see someone else who thinks the reputation of the PT Jedi is a bit inflated. It is true that we rarely see the PT Jedi actually use the Force effectively, they're pretty much exclusively Jedi Guardians at that point. Even Yoda resorts to using a lightsaber more often than not.

Although there was a similar discussion to this in a thread from a few weeks ago, but that was more exclusively about the Jedi. Link here

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I agree, despite what Ventessel says we have to remember that he was personally trained by Darth Sidious at the height of the Order of the Sith Lords as a living weapon. A killing machine. Remember that the Sidious era was the height of all eras for the Sith, Sidious and his master had grown far more powerful than any of the Sith Empire.

I think he'd be more than a match in terms of a lightsaber too. This guy has mastered Juyo, Niman and Jar'Kai - and incorporated that with exceptional skill in unarmed combat. Granted his unfamiliar weapon gave him an edge against the Jedi - but ultimately he completely outclassed them on the field of combat. There is nothing the Sith of the OR have that Maul doesn't have, and then some.
Just because Sidious was "the most powerful Sith Lord" doesn't mean Maul would be a powerful combatant. Power does not equal swordsmanship. At the same time, power is also relative. A strong force connection does not mean that a combatant will be talented at one thing or another. Take Bastila's battle meditation, for instance. She wasn't considered to be absurdly powerful, but her innate talent for that one power amplified her existing potential and allowed her to change the course of entire battles.

So, back to Maul. He's trained in Juyo, Niman, and Jar'Kai. Good for him.

All of these forms were developed long before the Great Galactic War, and the Sith under Vitiate had even developed their own particular combat styles during their exile. We have no idea if any of these teachings were later incorporated into Maul's training because Vitiate's empire was something of a bastard child of the original Sith.

So any Sith that Maul might face during the Cold War Era are going to be trained in the same, if not more, forms that he is. Additionally, most Sith Warriors in this era also made use of the Force to augment their combat abilities with tremendous leaps, defensive techniques, force rage, etc.

I just don't see Maul as being particularly powerful, or really capable of keeping up with the deadly warriors we see running around in Vitiate's empire.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Weak against Force lightning? Not the case. No he cannot deflect it or channel it himself, but he can endure it. Case in point: when single-handedly wiping out the Black Sun leadership on Ralltiir he encountered an extremely powerful Nightsister whom unleashed a barrage of lightning at him - Maul simply shrugged it off, powered through it and sliced her in half.
That's not saying much. People can shrug off a bullet or shrapnel wound, even potentially fatal ones, in the short term. But afterwards, Maul was probably hurting considerably from that attack. You cannot simply "endure" serious injuries like those inflicted by lightning. Any suitably powerful Force user could flatten Maul with lightning, or just pin him underneath something heavy and then keep blasting him.


Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
An inflated image of Maul? Nope, I'm just recognizing him as what he is. The primary weapon of the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived. I think we also have to remember that excluding the 'Dark Ages' the Sith just grew more and more powerful.
Actually, he was more of a temporary tool. Used and then discarded long prior to the Clone Wars.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
03.22.2013 , 10:57 AM | #22
Quote:
Sidious and his master had grown far more powerful than any of the Sith Empire.
That's simply not true.Just because they changed tactics and the Sith Order changed the nature of its organisation doesn't mean that much regarding the power of its 2 members.
For example it is said many times in the Plagueis novel that many secrets known to the ancient sith have been lost.

Yes the sith on the line of Bane spend many generations gathering knowledge and recovering lost secrets and each Sith Lord contributed in some way in his study of the dark side... culminating in Sidious , but still ...
hardly the sith of the Rule of Two ,Plagueis and Sidious including ,are ''far more powerful'' then the Sith of both Sith Empires before Darth Ruin.

Also remember that Bane kinda started from scratch because the sith in the Brotherhood of Darkness were a joke.
Meanwhile the sith in both empires had a thriving tradition and practice of sith sorcery along with many other dark side practices for many hundreds of generation.The notion that the Sith of the Rule of Two are some kind of ''ultimate sith'' compared the ancient sith is laughable.And is nothing more than fanboyism aimed at making favoroite movie characters into gods.

Not to mention the setback of Darth Gravid .

Regarding Maul- he would simply be one of thousands of anonymous sith warriors in this era.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
03.22.2013 , 11:27 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaedusz View Post
That's simply not true.Just because they changed tactics and the Sith Order changed the nature of its organisation doesn't mean that much regarding the power of its 2 members.
For example it is said many times in the Plagueis novel that many secrets known to the ancient sith have been lost.

Yes the sith on the line of Bane spend many generations gathering knowledge and recovering lost secrets and each Sith Lord contributed in some way in his study of the dark side... culminating in Sidious , but still ...
hardly the sith of the Rule of Two ,Plagueis and Sidious including ,are ''far more powerful'' then the Sith of both Sith Empires before Darth Ruin.

Also remember that Bane kinda started from scratch because the sith in the Brotherhood of Darkness were a joke.
Meanwhile the sith in both empires had a thriving tradition and practice of sith sorcery along with many other dark side practices for many hundreds of generation.The notion that the Sith of the Rule of Two are some kind of ''ultimate sith'' compared the ancient sith is laughable.And is nothing more than fanboyism aimed at making favoroite movie characters gods.

Not to mention the setback of Darth Gravid .
Except that Sidious is the ultimate Sith Lord. The most powerful Sith Lord to ever live. You can't dispute this G-CANON fact. Simply look at his abilities, they outclass all that came before.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
03.22.2013 , 11:34 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Except that Sidious is the ultimate Sith Lord. The most powerful Sith Lord to ever live.[/COLOR]
Every time i read this ,here on these forums my head hurts.Repeated over and over and over like some mantra.Lol.

The only proof that he is the most powerful is simply a statement in wookiepedia,a statement by himself in the Plagueis novel to be exact .Exactly looking at his abilities make me think he is not most powerful and i don't consider the old EU-Dark Empire for example for something to be taken seriously.
Yes, amongs the most powerful sith lords ever,but ''the most'',hardly.

Tycoon's Avatar


Tycoon
03.22.2013 , 11:38 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Kharnamatic View Post
Darth Maul has next to no force powers and no defense against force attacks (e.g. vs Sidious he got knocked out with a force push then begged for his life while getting zapped).

A Jedi consular would simply force push the top of his saberstaff, sending the tip into his head and killing him within moments of the fight starting.

A smuggler would fire his scattergun, and Maul would have no way to deflect a diffuse mass of pellets with his lightsaber. Again Maul would die moments into the fight. Similarly he would not have the reflexes to parry the volume of fire put out by a trooper's minigun.

The Jedi/Sith of the PT were truly pitiful and were no match for blasters. As we saw in the Phantom Menace one shileded droideka/destroyer droid is the equal of a Jedi Master like Qui-Gon. Jedi died en masse trying to save Obi-Wan in the Geonosis Arena. It is no wonder the Jedi Order was wiped out by clones and the Republic needed clones in the first place. The Jedi had neglected their ranged force powers and focused almost exclusively on lightsaber training, which due to simple geometry of lines cannot deflect volley fire (3 or more bolts hitting at the same time). The massed ranks of clone troopers that assaulted the Jedi Temple in Ep III would have been sitting ducks for ranged force AoE attacks. But instead of using their powers to throw the troopers around like ragdolls or burn them to a crisp with arcing lightning attacks, the jedi brought a knife to a gunfight.

Jedi using lightsabers when they have magic (Force) makes as much sense as speccing a stereotypical mage for melee combat.
Lol Darth Maul might not be able to deflect scattergun, but he sure as hell can dodge it. Darth Maul has showned great finesse. Out of all the sabre duels i have seen in the movies/tv shows, darth maul always seemed to be the most agile. I think Darth Maul being a weapon is spot on. I think darth maul can only be defeated by manipulation of the system, something all the classes in swtor seem well equiped to do. Darth Maul is most effective when directed towards the right direction.

You have to remember Darth Maul has been trained by Sidious. I think the only person above Darth Maul other then Sidious is Darth Vader

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
03.22.2013 , 11:43 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaedusz View Post
Every time i read this ,here on these forums my head hurts.Repeated over and over and over like some mantra.Lol.

The only proof that he is the most powerful is simply a statement in wookiepedia,a statement by himself in the Plagueis novel to be exact .Exactly looking at his abilities make me think he is not most powerful and i don't consider the old EU-Dark Empire for example for something to be taken seriously.
Yes, amongs the most powerful sith lords ever,but ''the most'',hardly.
You don't even need to go to Dark Empire, there are other sources stating as such.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
03.22.2013 , 11:43 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaedusz View Post
Every time i read this ,here on these forums my head hurts.Repeated over and over and over like some mantra.Lol.

The only proof that he is the most powerful is simply a statement in wookiepedia,a statement by himself in the Plagueis novel to be exact .Exactly looking at his abilities make me think he is not most powerful and i don't consider the old EU-Dark Empire for example for something to be taken seriously.
Yes, amongs the most powerful sith lords ever,but ''the most'',hardly.
He has been stated multiple times to be the most powerful Sith Lord ever. Not just in sourcebooks, but by G-canon sources.

If you refuse to consider his actions during Dark Empire (which doesn't really matter, the movies show him as the most powerful), then you may as well ignore the rest of the EU. They all consist of one flowing universe. Sidious' actions are apart of that single universe. As are Vitiate's. Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord ever. Everything points to that inescapable fact.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Tycoon's Avatar


Tycoon
03.22.2013 , 11:56 AM | #28
Ventessel: "Just because Sidious was "the most powerful Sith Lord" doesn't mean Maul would be a powerful combatant."

It doesn't? If being trained by a one of the greatest, if not the best SIth Lord, doesnt make you a powerful combatant, then I dont know what will...

Ventessel: "Power does not equal swordsmanship."

Im pretty sure power has some role in swordsmanship...

Stevaelin's Avatar


Stevaelin
03.22.2013 , 12:04 PM | #29
He died like a punk in the movies, he'd die like a punk in the Old Republic.

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
03.22.2013 , 12:33 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Except that Sidious is the ultimate Sith Lord. The most powerful Sith Lord to ever live. You can't dispute this G-CANON fact. Simply look at his abilities, they outclass all that came before.
G-Canon (a.k.a. the movies) shows us a guy who can make good use of telekinesis, fight with Mace Windu, and dish out Force Lightning, in addition to vaguely using the Dark Side to cloud the Jedi's sensing abilities... or something like that. It's tough to tell what Yoda is trying to say in the prequels.

Some sloppily written nonsense in the early EU, Dark Empire, produces an absurd demi-god who basically rips apart reality on a whim and continually resurrects himself. Consider that these works were written long before most of the Jedi/Sith mythology had been explored, and there was no context to base the powers of Force Users on aside from the few things seen in the classic trilogies. So bear that in mind when considering that writing.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell