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Problem with tanks in this game.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Problem with tanks in this game.

UberRod's Avatar


UberRod
03.11.2013 , 07:31 PM | #1
My first level 50 is Guardian tank. Maybe I'm spoiled from playing tanks in City of Heroes (may it rest in peace), but why should tanks be effected by stuns, knockbacks, etc. I can see in PVP, although it should be more limited, but PVE? No.

Also you shouldn't have to have a healer breathing down your neck to survive. Lower the damage Guardians do if you want, but make them tougher.

I'm not complaining that content is too hard. However it is the principle of things. And why is there any chance of losing aggro?

Tanking was so much easier in City of Heroes. Don't know why tanks have to be so squishy. Ok, not squishy, let's say less tanky.

Dangbak's Avatar


Dangbak
03.12.2013 , 06:32 AM | #2
Absorbtion rating and defense is key...have a 50 guardian thats pretty hard to take down due to that...
I also do agree with the whole knock back/stun during PVE they should do something about that...I also worked with my 50 assasin and made him into a tank, and I still get the same results. But in conclusion, i do 100% agree with you that they need to make a couple changes during pve with tanks...maybe two more abilities that can break stun and reduce the chance of knockback.
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JouerTue's Avatar


JouerTue
03.12.2013 , 06:46 AM | #3
it would be good and part of the funof tanking being ableto avoid knockbacks,maybe with a cooldown, butwould be part of knowing your timing hit that ability..and it would be fun also in pvp..it would be for the guardian the same advantage stealth is foran assassin/shadow

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
03.12.2013 , 09:37 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by UberRod View Post
Tanking was so much easier in City of Heroes. Don't know why tanks have to be so squishy. Ok, not squishy, let's say less tanky.
First off, City of Heroes had a *completely* different design structure than TOR does, not to mention that it wasn't even approaching what anyone would refer to as balance. I played it for years and, while it was amazingly fun, even the devs had to admit that it was wasn't really a balanced game. Just look at what it took to actually make PvE content difficult (mag 100 CC effects from Ghost Widow), and PvP was pretty much broken from the start and continued as such for the rest of the game's life.

As to the whole "tanks that can get CCd", it's kind of necessary to make those relevant effects actually carry some weight. In CoX, massive CC protection for melee characters was pretty much necessary because the devs screwed up basic balance when they were designing the game and made it so that pretty much anything with a CC ability (PC or NPC) could perma-CC absolutely anything else in the game that wasn't functionally immune to it, not to mention that they designed an entire archetype specifically *around* hard CC so that CC was, almost literally, coming out of every potential orifice. In TOR, since the devs *didn't* make the mistake that pretty much anything and everything can be perma-CCd thanks to ridiculous uptime ratios on CC effects, it's not really necessary to make it so that melee players are functionally immune.

In short, it's not a problem with tanks, nor is it even a problem with *this game*. It was a problem with CoX in that the devs simply made some *really* bad choices thanks to Jack Emmert who wouldn't know balance or fun if it slapped him in the face. By the time some developers that actually understood balance got placed in charge (re: when enemies with massively oversized CCs were added specifically to counteract said massive CC protection because, if CCs don't have any effect on anyone except for the most monumentally inexperienced or low level, what's the point of having them?), the game had been out for too long to completely rebuild it from the ground up to actually balance things out. Hell, the only reason that personal survivability powersets *got* access to those disgusting overpowered CC protection toggles was because CCs turned off all toggles and, in beta, rather than realizing that CCs turning off all 10-12 toggles that all had activation times was *massively* overpowered, said developers decided to simply provide said personal survivability powersets (which relied overwhelmingly on running massive numbers of toggles simultaneously) with functional immunity to an entire classification of ability.

Yes, CCs are annoying; they're supposed to be. The solution isn't to simply make it so that most of the people that get hit with them are *immune* to them (or at least so protected against them that they're *functionally* immune); the solution (which pretty much every other game out there has learned) is to make it so that they stay in the realm of "annoying" rather than overbalanced both of them so that it's functionally a binary choice between "CCs are overpowered" and "CCs are laughable" depending entirely upon class (and sometimes even just spec) choice.
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psandak
03.12.2013 , 12:04 PM | #5
I agree with Dangbak. Simply being a tank class is insufficient to be a tank - you need the stats as well. In TOR these are defense rating, shield rating, and absorb rating. If your tank character is wearing the gear sets designed for tanking and is specced for tanking then your tank character should not be squishy at all. In fact, on my guardian JK full defense spec with my healer companion (Doc), I have been all but invincible in ALL solo content since I got that companion - I have even taken on 2+ heroics solo ("all but" meaning that if I do something stupid I die).

Mattmonkey's Avatar


Mattmonkey
03.12.2013 , 05:05 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by UberRod View Post
My first level 50 is Guardian tank. Maybe I'm spoiled from playing tanks in City of Heroes (may it rest in peace), but why should tanks be effected by stuns, knockbacks, etc. I can see in PVP, although it should be more limited, but PVE? No.

Also you shouldn't have to have a healer breathing down your neck to survive. Lower the damage Guardians do if you want, but make them tougher.

I'm not complaining that content is too hard. However it is the principle of things. And why is there any chance of losing aggro?

Tanking was so much easier in City of Heroes. Don't know why tanks have to be so squishy. Ok, not squishy, let's say less tanky.
So you want a tank that cannot be killed, is immune to CC and never loses threat?
Sounds like fun.
Lyrik - Guardian
Mogal - Jugg
Lyr - Sentinal

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
03.12.2013 , 05:53 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Mattmonkey View Post
So you want a tank that cannot be killed, is immune to CC and never loses threat?
That was pretty much tanking in City of Heroes. Like I said, it wasn't well designed from a challenge standpoint.
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UberRod's Avatar


UberRod
03.12.2013 , 07:33 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Mattmonkey View Post
So you want a tank that cannot be killed, is immune to CC and never loses threat?
Sounds like fun.
I would be happy with being immune to cc (or at least resistant) and never losing threat.

UberRod's Avatar


UberRod
03.12.2013 , 07:40 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
That was pretty much tanking in City of Heroes. Like I said, it wasn't well designed from a challenge standpoint.
OMG, Stone tanks, slow as molasses, but were pretty much unkillable.

I can see your points. I don't necessarily want full blown City of Heroes tanks, but better cc resistance and better threat/aggro control. And ok, a little more resilience. Reduce the damage output if necessary.

Mattmonkey's Avatar


Mattmonkey
03.12.2013 , 08:33 PM | #10
I want it to be harder.

tanking in this game is easy. make threat harder. make us squishy make us have to work our arses off to avoid cc.
(well actually i think at the mo tanking is not hard enough) but i would prefer to see us get our threat more from dps than fram taunting so that we need to maintain a better rotation as well as attend to other strategic tanking requirments).
if you take thses things away you remove the challenge and the reward.
Lyrik - Guardian
Mogal - Jugg
Lyr - Sentinal