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8 man HM Zorn and Toth. I feel they need a slight nerf, please discuss

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
8 man HM Zorn and Toth. I feel they need a slight nerf, please discuss

JimmyTheCannon's Avatar


JimmyTheCannon
03.11.2013 , 06:30 PM | #21
Even if you don't do the berserk trick, it really is the easiest fight (sans Vorgath) of EC HM. If it were nerfed, then Firebrand and Stormcaller would be even *more* of a kick in the nuts.

If you can't currently do Zorn and Toth HM you're not ready for the rest of the raid. That's not "it's too hard." It's an indicator that your raid needs to work on their DPS/survivability/whatever is holding you up, or gear up, or learn to coordinate better.

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
03.11.2013 , 07:42 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by JimmyTheCannon View Post
Even if you don't do the berserk trick, it really is the easiest fight (sans Vorgath) of EC HM. If it were nerfed, then Firebrand and Stormcaller would be even *more* of a kick in the nuts.

If you can't currently do Zorn and Toth HM you're not ready for the rest of the raid. That's not "it's too hard." It's an indicator that your raid needs to work on their DPS/survivability/whatever is holding you up, or gear up, or learn to coordinate better.
Jimmy's right. The problem with nerfing content is that it leaves you unprepared for more challenging content (nerf HM and watch as NiM wipes even more groups).
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DarthFamine's Avatar


DarthFamine
03.12.2013 , 02:12 AM | #23
I disagree

im not just poking them once or twice then
qq
nerf
qq

im doing due diligence, multiple strats, multiple toons, multiple groups, multiple compositions across the spectrum.
After examining the encounter in question I have found it somewhat buggy and in need of a slight nerf.

As for preparing for nightmare, that's irrelevant to this discussion. Nightmare should be punishing and unforgiving.

so can you offer constructive ideas or not?
"It might be fear, or anger, or hatred, or perhaps even suffering that makes a man fall to the dark side, but it is without a doubt regret, that keeps him there."
-Darth Famine
www.RJKgaming.com

jasonthelamb's Avatar


jasonthelamb
03.12.2013 , 02:32 AM | #24
OP, you're dumb. Sorry, just had to say that.

Plenty of people can easily do EC HM (at least the first three bosses), and HMs do not call for a nerf, SM was already nerfed so bad that going into EC HM from SM is a whole new ballgame (DPS UNDER SHIELD GUISE!).

If you can't do EC HM Toth and Zorn, you need to start parsing, looking at who's dying, and why. If you're a casual guild who doesn't care about content, just keep banging your head against the wall; but don't think because YOU think it needs a nerf, that the community is going to totally agree with you.

JimmyTheCannon's Avatar


JimmyTheCannon
03.12.2013 , 03:07 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthFamine View Post
I disagree

im not just poking them once or twice then
qq
nerf
qq

im doing due diligence, multiple strats, multiple toons, multiple groups, multiple compositions across the spectrum.
After examining the encounter in question I have found it somewhat buggy and in need of a slight nerf.

As for preparing for nightmare, that's irrelevant to this discussion. Nightmare should be punishing and unforgiving.

so can you offer constructive ideas or not?
I'm trying to be constructive here. If HM Z&T were nerfed, and you downed them, you'd then go into Stormcaller and Firebrand and not be even CLOSE to ready for that. Next thing you'll be calling for a nerf there, too.

The raid is balanced fine. It's difficult, yes. My guild didn't get fully through EC HM until our entire raid group was 99% 61s. But the first boss is almost *too* easy compared to the rest.

I'll reiterate: if you need Z&T nerfed you are NOT READY FOR EC HM.

DarthFamine's Avatar


DarthFamine
03.12.2013 , 08:14 AM | #26
Firebrand and stormcaller are irrelevant for the discussion at hand.

Have you noticed it's always the three of us arguing about this stuff?
"It might be fear, or anger, or hatred, or perhaps even suffering that makes a man fall to the dark side, but it is without a doubt regret, that keeps him there."
-Darth Famine
www.RJKgaming.com

bbare's Avatar


bbare
03.12.2013 , 08:54 AM | #27
When EC HM came out in 1.2, everyone in the guild I was in was wearing rakata and augments were extremely rare, because there were no augmentation kits. EC HM is supposed to be scaled to people in full Rakata without any augments. Even then, Toth and Zorn on HM was not a great challenge. We did wipe several times, but it still was quite easy once we got used to the fight. If you are struggling with HM Toth and Zorn right now, it is your guild's problem and not the boss being too difficult. Take some responsibility for yourself and stop giving excuses. HM Toth and Zorn is one of the last fights that need a nerf, in a game where 99% of the content is easy.
The Vanity Legacy

DonkeyGobbler's Avatar


DonkeyGobbler
03.12.2013 , 09:06 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by JimmyTheCannon View Post
First of all, you say "please discuss" but then ask people who don't feel they need a nerf not to post. That's not a discussion.
^ This.

So, no, please don't nerf it. Stop dumbing stuff down because people can't clear it. Lost island was a fun challenge for a while, now it's been dumbed down out of recognition partly, I'm sure, due to all the whining on here.

We wiped on HM T&Z numerous times in the past but it just makes victory sweeter when you clear it. Now itís faceroll. If you donít have the time, inclination, patience or skill might I suggest the obvious alternative: story mode.

SalBasss's Avatar


SalBasss
03.12.2013 , 09:26 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
Step 1: Buy RotHC
Step 2: Level to 55
Step 3: Faceroll HM Z&T
This.

This is already a built in (albeit indirect) nerf coming with 2.0. There's no need to further nerf the mechanics which would put this fight on par with SM EV.

namesaretough's Avatar


namesaretough
03.12.2013 , 09:46 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthFamine View Post
Firebrand and stormcaller are irrelevant for the discussion at hand.
Not really. It doesn't make sense to say the fight is too difficult without determining what the correct level of difficulty is. Judging by FB/SC and Kephess, Zorn and Toth is at a good level of difficulty for the operation, possibly even too easy.
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