Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Time for a new (desperate) change of tactic...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Time for a new (desperate) change of tactic...

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
03.05.2013 , 05:42 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Chemic_al View Post
Whatever dude, keep calling people bads, I go by the evidence.

Sorc dps is a joke.

It's poor in pve and pvp.

If it wasn't so poor, rated teams would use them more. It has an absurdly high skill level for the performance. And no I don't want to quit whining until it's brought somewhat in line with other classes. Competitive it is not.

The fact you remain oblivious to this, suggests you're the bad, not me.
I DPS on a Sage and a Sorc. I've been in full war hero gear on both for months. I am nearly always top on the damage chart. I play for objectives. I've cleared every raid in the game and my DPS numbers are as good or better than anyone else I run with, but yeah, I'm the bad. You came close to a point when you said that Sorc has a high skill level for the performance. It is definitely easier to get decent results in PvP with a derp-smash spec. So if that's what you want, roll that spec. Sorc requires you be smart about positioning, kiting and using the tools at your disposal. Should some other specs (Rage in particular) probably get more of a nerf. Sure. But that doesn't mean you can't be competitive with a Sorc.

No one is saying we are OP or that we are as easy to play as a Marauder. But this sky-is-falling attitude is just over the top and uncalled for. The class isn't broken. A properly geared and skilled Sorc can clear every raid in the game with ease and be competitive in warzones. And the class is getting BETTER with 2.0. If you have specific complaints, list them. I'd like to see us get out instant Whirlwind back. I'd like to see us get an execute skill. But I'm not going to pretend it's the end of the world.

WaldoA's Avatar


WaldoA
03.06.2013 , 01:43 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by SoonerJBD View Post
I DPS on a Sage and a Sorc. I've been in full war hero gear on both for months. I am nearly always top on the damage chart. I play for objectives. I've cleared every raid in the game and my DPS numbers are as good or better than anyone else I run with, but yeah, I'm the bad. You came close to a point when you said that Sorc has a high skill level for the performance. It is definitely easier to get decent results in PvP with a derp-smash spec. So if that's what you want, roll that spec. Sorc requires you be smart about positioning, kiting and using the tools at your disposal. Should some other specs (Rage in particular) probably get more of a nerf. Sure. But that doesn't mean you can't be competitive with a Sorc.

No one is saying we are OP or that we are as easy to play as a Marauder. But this sky-is-falling attitude is just over the top and uncalled for. The class isn't broken. A properly geared and skilled Sorc can clear every raid in the game with ease and be competitive in warzones. And the class is getting BETTER with 2.0. If you have specific complaints, list them. I'd like to see us get out instant Whirlwind back. I'd like to see us get an execute skill. But I'm not going to pretend it's the end of the world.
I just wrote a big long response to this quote, then decided I could do it in a much shorter one.
Damage doesn't win Warzones, You're right, Sorcs can do very high numbers on the score board, but that's from DoTs and it's extremely easy to do. We have damage capability, we do not have burst. You want the enemy dead, not to tickle them over the course of a full warzone to get yourself #1 spot to fuel your ego.

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
03.06.2013 , 03:43 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by WaldoA View Post
I just wrote a big long response to this quote, then decided I could do it in a much shorter one.
Damage doesn't win Warzones, You're right, Sorcs can do very high numbers on the score board, but that's from DoTs and it's extremely easy to do. We have damage capability, we do not have burst. You want the enemy dead, not to tickle them over the course of a full warzone to get yourself #1 spot to fuel your ego.
Which is why I also said I play for objectives. I don't understand why it is so hard to believe that someone could enjoy and be successful playing a DPS sorc in both PvE and warzones. For all the talk of the burst other classes have, I rarely have issues one-on-one. Burst can be negated if you use interrupts, stuns and los. Keeping melee in the 8 meter range so they can't leap or use melee attacks on you is extremely effective. Saving your KB or a stun for a Sentinel or Guardian as they start Master Strike can totally screw their burst. Creeping Terror for 2-second root followed by Force Slow plus Force Speed plus knockback, root again, stun. I mean you have so many tools to keep melee off you. I love going against melee. Will you have problems if you get focused by two or three opponents at once? Yeah, but you should. It seems like people think they should never die in PvP or something.

DoTs do damage like everything else. I love standing at range from a group, dotting everyone, then hitting them with death field. Pick out one person and force lightning/warth-proc crushing darkness. By the time someone even notices you on the fringe of the battle and switches to target you, they are at 60 percent health or less. And applying those dots to an entire group is extremely helpful to the team. It helps everyone else kill their targets faster. If you aren't using your DoTs, you are gimping your team.

It seems like the complaints boil down to the fact that we can't do the exact same damage in the exact same way as Rage Marauders. Well, no, we can't. We use different tactics and a different play-style. If you want to do damage like a Maruader, roll a Marauder. Sorcs can be extremely effective in warzones if you learn how to use them. If you want to leap at the first person you see and spam heavy attacks until they are dead, Sorc isn't meant for you.

I just don't have the problems in PvP that I see complained about on here, and I know plenty of other Sorcs and Sages who are excellent at PvP. If you can't make the class work for you, switch to another one that better suits your play style. The constant whining about the class being broken is just over the top and not true.

JDotter's Avatar


JDotter
03.06.2013 , 10:29 PM | #24
Please keep the tears rolling, I'd love to get a buff for my class even though its fine currently.

dcgregorya's Avatar


dcgregorya
03.06.2013 , 11:15 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by WaldoA View Post
I just wrote a big long response to this quote, then decided I could do it in a much shorter one.
Damage doesn't win Warzones, You're right, Sorcs can do very high numbers on the score board, but that's from DoTs and it's extremely easy to do. We have damage capability, we do not have burst. You want the enemy dead, not to tickle them over the course of a full warzone to get yourself #1 spot to fuel your ego.
Sometimes damage does actually win warzones.

If you can pressure a group your team can cut through them faster.

I've had matches where I played as my sabo gunslinger and people stood right in my AOE's where I've taken half 3/4 of the health of 5 people.

In ranked, burst and focus fire is a lot more important - but that's not because AOE pressure is bad, but rather due to the need to break spider healing - which is an element of the metagame. The metagame changes every patch, so I'm not too worried about that. In 2.0 for instance, people's life expectancy in warzones is going to go way up, with the stat adjustments to add such a massive amount more endurance to gear and improvements to tanking classes and ultimately guard and etc and in that scenario, AOE pressure will be more important than it is in ranked right now.

Chemic_al's Avatar


Chemic_al
03.07.2013 , 05:42 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by SoonerJBD View Post
And the class is getting BETTER with 2.0.
Yeah but the main problem is so are all the others - just look at the crazy buffs to operative healers for instance. They haven't made meaningful nerfs to the classes and specs that need it. Which to me, means relatively speaking we're no better off, and imo slightly worse off overall.

Complaints aren't even limited to the things you mentioned which I agree with, but assassins' madness tree getting the dot buff when the target is under 30% and ours not.
Sins getting the teleport? They have stealth already.
They didn't give us shroud.
They could have reverted sorc and merc stun back to 30m since you know, ranged dps, keeping the sin and powertech one at 10m.
They gave juggernauts a damage reflect, now that to me is the "mage" like ability, and juggs really did not need yet another cooldown. Even dps jugs take forever to take down in wzs with their cooldowns already.
They gave marauders another ranged attack? Like lolwut?
They could have given sorcs group utility, but chose not to.

There are many things they could have done and didn't.

Chemic_al's Avatar


Chemic_al
03.07.2013 , 05:52 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by dcgregorya View Post
AOE pressure will be more important than it is in ranked right now.
Completely agree, whether it's damage or aoe cc. Sorcs just can't compete.

Sosajoshua's Avatar


Sosajoshua
03.07.2013 , 07:13 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Chemic_al View Post
They gave juggernauts a damage reflect, now that to me is the "mage" like ability, and juggs really did not need yet another cooldown. Even dps jugs take forever to take down in wzs with their cooldowns already.
They gave marauders another ranged attack? Like lolwut?
They could have given sorcs group utility, but chose not to.

There are many things they could have done and didn't.
I think I completely agree with you. Juggs get Smash lessened but another cooldown. Maras get a 30meter (hey Powertechs like the smack in the face!?) that no matter what build is still annoying. And then for Sorcerer they just gave us an anti-anything for 15sec. This I just cant understand.
<A Wretched Hive> Jedi Covenant Rhaegis, Madness Sorcerer / Youngdragon, Advanced Proto-tech / Kha'leesi, Engineering Sniper / Dragonbane, Vengence Juggernaut

Devinia-Hex's Avatar


Devinia-Hex
03.07.2013 , 11:00 AM | #29
If you think sorcs have great cc and can 1v1 like a pro you don't have any skilled other classes on your server. Some of our smash spec'd Guardians are getting 8-9k crits full alite EWH min maxed with Power Surge all there Datacrons every Bio Chem stim a few PVE Armor plates they will wreck little dps sorcs in 15 seconds or less.
Dashara Bergen Colony Devinia Hex The Bastion

Zajfien's Avatar


Zajfien
03.07.2013 , 01:57 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by ZeppFreeloader View Post
The issue isn't actually damage as much as survivability. The devs have nerfed pretty much all sorcerer CC and given no significant alternative for survival. You can't cause damage from the grave...
^^^^^ this & this.