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[Suggestion] No-one likes ninja looting


cidbahamut's Avatar


cidbahamut
03.04.2013 , 10:38 AM | #61
I provided plenty of constructive feedback. You just didn't bother to read it before dismissing me simply because I have a different opinion than you.

You're not looking to have a productive discussion, you're simply looking to gather up positive reinforcement of what you've already decided is the best course of action in the hopes that the devs will see that and latch onto it and subsequently carry out your will.

Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
03.04.2013 , 10:56 AM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by cidbahamut View Post
I provided plenty of constructive feedback. You just didn't bother to read it before dismissing me simply because I have a different opinion than you.

You're not looking to have a productive discussion, you're simply looking to gather up positive reinforcement of what you've already decided is the best course of action in the hopes that the devs will see that and latch onto it and subsequently carry out your will.
Nah, you have written about that ninjalooting is a community problem and that my suggestion will lead to a problem with players not being able to ninja items to their companions.

I have read your posts and want to discuss those "problems" you keep refering to, but you only say that you have explained them already. If my suggestion leads to so many "problems" according to you it is interesting to discuss them, as I have mentioned in many many posts.

If you actually think I can not read or discuss something constuctivly, I must remind you that you are wrong. I work with this all day long.

JouerTue's Avatar


JouerTue
03.06.2013 , 03:24 AM | #63
at low level i remember everyone that can happen to use a item with a different stat from your main..due to the fact that for example aim and cunning can give you almost the same bonus if you are rolling a smuggler/agent...the ninja problem can be bigger if you only go for FP, if you do all your weeklies in a couple of weeks you can buy a BH piece which is better than any columi...and in ops you are in competition with more people so can happen to go home with nothing earned..finally WH gear is better than columi too sometimes..since i look for commendations mainly i don't really care about drops..this does not mean i'm not in favor of a loot system reform..

Themanthatisi's Avatar


Themanthatisi
03.07.2013 , 02:07 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Quazi-moto View Post
LOTRO implemented a new system that has drops for each person that contributes to a kill. I don't see why it is so improbable that everyone spending time/effort going through an op/fp should have to roll for the 1 -3 items that drop. Comms are just a slow way of getting the specific piece you want. If everyone were to receive a drop, there would be less time grinding to gear, and more time to do ... oh wait that is all there is for endgame. What would be nice is to have other things to do besides gear grind.

Less focus on gear, more focus on entertainment.
I agree with this...

JamieKirby's Avatar


JamieKirby
03.07.2013 , 02:29 PM | #65
Well, i tend to avoid the group content while leveling up, got fed up with all the 'SPACE BAR NAW!!' crap from all those impatient children, so i have no idea what that is like to experience ninja looting, but the way the whole gearing up is right now, where the only other viable way to gear up your companion is to buy from the GTN, which can be over-expensive, i am not surprised that alot of players try to get the loot from flashpoints.

In the end, the companion is part of our character, the way combat is done, you need the companion as geared up as possible, especially if you use the DPS or tank companion, though the only real solution is to use the healer companion when you get him/her, because the dps/tank companions need as good gear as the player to be equally as good as the healer is in plain greens.

If anything, it was poorly designed by bioware, it was insanely stupid to make the companion make such a huge difference to the combat experience, its just my opinion, not that it matters.

Overall, ninja-looting will always be an issue, its just one of those things.

Burgdawg's Avatar


Burgdawg
03.07.2013 , 02:37 PM | #66
Idea: Start PVPing and earn your gear like men.
Mace Windu: "I'm a prophet. I can see the future..." Thug: "Sure you can. What do you see?" Mace Windu: "You. Bleeding." ―Mace Windu and a very unfortunate thug

JamieKirby's Avatar


JamieKirby
03.07.2013 , 03:45 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Burgdawg View Post
Idea: Start PVPing and earn your gear like men.
I tried that, i kept falling asleep, pvp is soooo boringly predictable and the fact that its always 3v1 or 4v1, its obviously not men that do pvp, more like people that lack backbone.

Don't get me wrong, pvp used to be fun, when it was more about the playing the game, its become more about just winning and that is what makes it so boringly predictable.

It was more fun when it was more about the journey to winning or losing, i remember it well, where the winner or loser of the game would say things like 'good game mate, you were pretty good', now its 'oh my god, you suck' or 'oh my god, you hacker' its just got too competitive and its only if you win that matters, not the fun inbetween the start and end.

Seireeni's Avatar


Seireeni
03.09.2013 , 07:37 PM | #68
^ Yeah sure, and pve isn't any predictable at all...lol.
Problem with pvp gear is that before level 50, there are only 2 sets of pvp gear, level 20 gear and level 40 gear. For levels 30-39, pvp doesn't keep you geared.

Personally, I think ninjalooting is a problem, but making it impossible to need unless you can equip the item and benefit from it just does have a lot of problems.
1. As it is already said, it would be remarkably harder to need for a companion. Before you can write to the chat "hey, do you people mind to pass if I'd greed that to my comp?", the rest of the group has already pressed need/greed/pass, not to mention that you would actually have to ask it before you know if anyone would actually need it.
2. For trading afterwards, there are a few types of people that make it hard: a. people that just want the fp done and don't want to wait all the trading to happen, b. people who don't speak english (problematic in pretty much every else option, too, but wanted to mention that), c. people who just feel like being rude and d. f2p and preferred, who can't trade.
3. Now, let's say that I'm a commando and the only trooper in the group. A boss drops a good, moddable vanguard shield, but since I'm a commando, I can't equip it. What I could do is to change the mods to my other gear (in this case those mods would be better than what I have, tanking mods or not). Wouldn't I "need" the gear a bit more than another player who wants the enhancement from it, wants to give it to comp or just sell it for good money?
4. People could still ninja things they don't need as long as they could benefit from it (and yes, that can be ninjaing, or at least my sniper has been accused for ninjaing an agent columi piece since she was wearing a wh piece and people didn't think I could need the columi...and no, I did not ninja, I was trying to get a full columi for a pve gear since people really look down on people trying to do pve on wh gear)

This would only be avoided by adding "semi-need" button to people that can't benefit from the gear but have some other need to it. And after that, of course, ninjas would start abusing that button and the problem would only be half-solved.

I'd personally prefer alternative solutions. First, to prevent accidental ninjaing, it would be useful if a codex about need/greed/pass would pop up when first grouping with another player or at least when player accepts the mission for The Esseles of Black Talon. It should clearly explain in which situations you should need the piece of equipment in order to not to annoy other players.
Also, especially in ops where there's 8 people rolling need/greed/pass, it's pretty easy for a ninja to go unnoticed when the chat is quickly filled with x rolls x on item x -messages. It would be more easy to detect ninja if people who pressed need would me marked somehow, i.e. they'd have a small icon next to their name in the ops frame for the next 30-60 seconds. Putting your mouse on this icon would show what the player has rolled need for the last 30-60 seconds. If everything the boss dropped is on that list, it would be clear without doubt to anyone that this person is ninjaing and should be kicked from the ops group (or fp group, though in there it's much easier to spot a ninja when only 4 people roll on the loot).

Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
03.11.2013 , 03:32 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by Seireeni View Post
1. As it is already said, it would be remarkably harder to need for a companion. Before you can write to the chat "hey, do you people mind to pass if I'd greed that to my comp?", the rest of the group has already pressed need/greed/pass, not to mention that you would actually have to ask it before you know if anyone would actually need it.
A companion need button should have been there from the start. To simply trust players that they will only press greed for companions when they infact in most cases uses need, might have been a nice sociological experiment from their side but now the show is over and we need that button or a better common sense lootsystem. Create a companion need button that has priority over greed button but not over need button. If players keep on hitting the companionbutton for everything then just kick them, they are obviously not rolling fair.


Quote: Originally Posted by Seireeni View Post
2. For trading afterwards, there are a few types of people that make it hard: a. people that just want the fp done and don't want to wait all the trading to happen, b. people who don't speak english (problematic in pretty much every else option, too, but wanted to mention that), c. people who just feel like being rude and d. f2p and preferred, who can't trade.
If someone has decided to ninja a item it is hard to make them let go of it. Eventhough they speak enough language to start and play the game, they "suddenly" becomes unaware of any written language. There are situations where language can be a barrier but those are few nowdays. Regarding F2P, there is not much to say there.

Quote: Originally Posted by Seireeni View Post
3. Now, let's say that I'm a commando and the only trooper in the group. A boss drops a good, moddable vanguard shield, but since I'm a commando, I can't equip it. What I could do is to change the mods to my other gear (in this case those mods would be better than what I have, tanking mods or not). Wouldn't I "need" the gear a bit more than another player who wants the enhancement from it, wants to give it to comp or just sell it for good money?
As I have mentnioned eariler, if you have a tank role and inform the group that you are looking for tank gear. The group will be in 99% of the cases fine with you taking whatever defence items that drop. A group is always interested in keeping a good tank happy. Even with a future common sense lootsystem it works because eventhough you can not directly press need, you can instruct the team to pass on defence gear and you recieve it by pressing the greed button. Communication is the key here, if a item has a defencemod that matches with the role you currently have in the flashpoint, any decent team will let you have it. I do see several problems though if you starts needing on tank gear with a dps role, then you will probably both get kicked out and ignored for future groups.

Quote: Originally Posted by Seireeni View Post
4. People could still ninja things they don't need as long as they could benefit from it (and yes, that can be ninjaing, or at least my sniper has been accused for ninjaing an agent columi piece since she was wearing a wh piece and people didn't think I could need the columi...and no, I did not ninja, I was trying to get a full columi for a pve gear since people really look down on people trying to do pve on wh gear)
If you take a item that is correct for your class, it has the right armor type and the right primary stat it will never be ninjalooting. Some might call it bad judgement but the term ninja comes from someone taking something not belonging to then.

Quote: Originally Posted by Seireeni View Post
This would only be avoided by adding "semi-need" button to people that can't benefit from the gear but have some other need to it. And after that, of course, ninjas would start abusing that button and the problem would only be half-solved.
Actually what we need are rules regarding the use of those buttons. As it is now the needbutton simply do a roll where the need button reaches a number (probably +200 or something) that always be higher then the greed button, hence giving the item to the winner. The "semi-need" button is not a bad idea but I think the greed button works fine here. What lacks is a definition of HOW to use the different buttons and when. I have in hundreds of posts written of a system where the different classes get priority over others. A trooper gets priority over a light armor sage and the other way around, a agent gets priority to get the item over some other player that wants the item for its companion and so on.....
This is by far the best suggestion I have seen since ToR introduced the new need/greed buttons, they were not there from the start if some of you remembers. The random here will simply be from the pool of items the boss can drop and the excitement will still be there for the ones participating in the flashpoint.


Quote: Originally Posted by Seireeni View Post
I'd personally prefer alternative solutions. First, to prevent accidental ninjaing, it would be useful if a codex about need/greed/pass would pop up when first grouping with another player or at least when player accepts the mission for The Esseles of Black Talon. It should clearly explain in which situations you should need the piece of equipment in order to not to annoy other players.
Yes a Codex written in very simple english with "do and do nots" could help alot, especially those that have no clue what those buttons are that pops up after each loot. I have met several players that thought greed was the button to press if you wanted something and need was ment for something else.
The lack of codex regarding loot in ToR is to my opinion something Bioware has not thought through and probably has no clue how to handle in the future, hence all the silence throughout the thousands of posts regarding this.

I would not mind if Bioware woke up and started communicating with the community regarding this, there are several questions here with posts that comes up from time to time that gladly we want answerered.

Avorniel's Avatar


Avorniel
03.12.2013 , 09:29 AM | #70
I wish they would add in the option you can only roll on gear you can use prob. tide to your stats of the character (player) only and maybe have a option for companion (need) like we have the RE option so we have 4 options instead of three or something along those lines.

I have avoided pug's (Pick Up Groups) for over 6 years due to this type of experience and thought it was time to try grouping again using group finder for daily FP runs and after some good runs did Wargames fp normal today and on last boss it dropped various loot parts and 1 blaster which I needed as I was the only Gunslinger and it was a nice upgrade only to find the trooper (healer) and Jedi Guardian (tank) both rolled need for it to and the Guardian won it ...got static from the guardian so hes on /ignore and so is the trooper for even rolling need on an item they couldn't use.
Now I'll just stop using GF and back to solo grinding I guess.it's funny how a small amount of selfish players can ruin the enjoyment of a game....

I am in a guild but most are level 50 and not many on during the day otherwise I would choose guild groups over GF any day
I sense a great disturbance in the Force... it's as if a million hamsters suddenly cried out in terror... and suddenly fell silent. Ref:- Raji_Lev