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DPS operatives in 2.0


Fallenturtle's Avatar


Fallenturtle
02.21.2013 , 11:16 PM | #51
OS and EP are already in the rotation, and with our energy improvements I don't get starved as much as I do on live, the problem in lines when both of those abilities are on cool down. We're getting alacrity out the ying yang. I did the test with the stock gear and with our talents (including the new alacrity boost from concealment) we're rocking about 11% alacrity. 6% from the concealment talent, 2% from the lethality talent, and 3.09% from the stock enforcer gear.

This reduces the GCD down to almost faster than a carnage marauder currently on live. Assuming OS and EP are on the cool down, our dot doesn't have to be refreshed, we are down to Shiv - 5 second CD, Backstab-12 second cd, and Laceration(requires TA) and RIFLE SHOT. Remember, Alacrity is reducing the GCD not Cool downs.

Lethality also has this problem in their rotation. Assuming dots do not need refreshed, OS-1 minute CD and EP-30 second cd are both down, and WB-15 seconds is also down There's shiv -5 seconds- Backstab-12 seconds-Cull (requires TA) and rifle shot. Granted as lethality your not rocking 11% alacrity but 5.09% as you don't have that talent from concealment up all the time.

Also, stim boost is giving us an extra 10% alacrity every 2 minutes(minute and a half for lethality) so during "burn phases" when its up we're sitting there rifle shooting more.

Even with our higher energy regen rate, My personal opinion is that Overload shot still does not put out a good DPE ratio.

Again, this is just my observations from playing on the Test server with my dps op using the stock gear against a level 50 operations dummy. I don't claim to be the #1 authority on op dps but I am still a bit concerned.
The Drakenhoff Legacy.
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HOCUHA's Avatar


HOCUHA
02.22.2013 , 02:14 AM | #52
Guys, what do you think about our chances against shadows/assassins?

Syberduh's Avatar


Syberduh
02.22.2013 , 02:37 AM | #53
From testing on the PTS, vs. an attentive sniper with 30 stacks of stealth detect, approaching from the front is unadvisable even with sneak up and using the roll. Fully stacked, a sniper can spot a sneaked concealment op who's in his frontal cone at nearly 20 meters. You can roll to 8m, but the sniper is still going to have at least a global's worth of warning. Unsneaked you'll be spotted from nearly 30m.

If you can get behind the sniper, tho, then using sneak you can still easily get in range for hidden strike without being spotted or using the roll. Even without sneak if you're behind the sniper you have to be within about 8m to be spotted.

A sniper sitting in a corner with 30 stacks of stealth detect ought to be pretty safe from stealth opens and sap/caps. The first room of voidstar has a couple of corners on the first door where a sniper could solo guard effectively. The huts in Novare are probably the same way. Civil war and hypergates I'm not so sure on.
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NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
02.22.2013 , 07:01 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Syberduh View Post
From testing on the PTS, vs. an attentive sniper with 30 stacks of stealth detect, approaching from the front is unadvisable even with sneak up and using the roll. Fully stacked, a sniper can spot a sneaked concealment op who's in his frontal cone at nearly 20 meters. You can roll to 8m, but the sniper is still going to have at least a global's worth of warning. Unsneaked you'll be spotted from nearly 30m.

If you can get behind the sniper, tho, then using sneak you can still easily get in range for hidden strike without being spotted or using the roll. Even without sneak if you're behind the sniper you have to be within about 8m to be spotted.

A sniper sitting in a corner with 30 stacks of stealth detect ought to be pretty safe from stealth opens and sap/caps. The first room of voidstar has a couple of corners on the first door where a sniper could solo guard effectively. The huts in Novare are probably the same way. Civil war and hypergates I'm not so sure on.
very nice, thank you for info.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

ktkenshinx's Avatar


ktkenshinx
02.22.2013 , 07:28 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by Syberduh View Post
From testing on the PTS, vs. an attentive sniper with 30 stacks of stealth detect, approaching from the front is unadvisable even with sneak up and using the roll. Fully stacked, a sniper can spot a sneaked concealment op who's in his frontal cone at nearly 20 meters. You can roll to 8m, but the sniper is still going to have at least a global's worth of warning. Unsneaked you'll be spotted from nearly 30m.

If you can get behind the sniper, tho, then using sneak you can still easily get in range for hidden strike without being spotted or using the roll. Even without sneak if you're behind the sniper you have to be within about 8m to be spotted.

A sniper sitting in a corner with 30 stacks of stealth detect ought to be pretty safe from stealth opens and sap/caps. The first room of voidstar has a couple of corners on the first door where a sniper could solo guard effectively. The huts in Novare are probably the same way. Civil war and hypergates I'm not so sure on.
I have only had a few games to test because a) my Scrapper hasn't been copied and b) PvP + Bolster = broken, but I had a different experience even against competent snipers.

It turns out that, no matter where the sniper sits, the Op CAN get off the opener as long as he gets off a good roll. If the defender is camping in a corner near the door, the Sniper won't see approaches made from the sides (just beyond the pillars. By skirting along the wall near those pillars, you can get within a few meters of the sniper's detection cone. If you strafe around the corner and aim your roll perfectly into the sniper's corner, you end up behind him; as long as you have a slight GCD reduction, this gives the sniper less than 1 second to react, and even good players are not perpetually ready to respond. I won't name names, but I recognized at least two snipers that I succeeded opening on in Voidstar, and they were both good players. But I also mis-angled my rolls and ended up too far in front of the sniper to get the opener off.

Alternately, if you think you can win the fight without Dirty Kick, you can just Sleep Dart on approach and then open with Shoot First as you get close. Given how much burstier we are now because of the GCD reductions off of Alacrity, this is also a viable option but might be somewhat gear dependent.

The real problem right now are guardians. New Shield chance against Tech + Reflect is a big danger.
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---THE SCRAPPER'S HANDBOOK: A PvP Guide---

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
02.22.2013 , 08:01 AM | #56
So the idea is you close in the distance while looking for a way to stay out of LoS, then make a quick roll to get behind the sniper so that you can open on him.

Lets take another scenario,
You are defending a node alone, the sniper comes with some other class, lets say somebody with no stealth detection.
The other dude comes to node and starts capturing. The sniper position himself somewhat behind so he can have within his cone of vision his team mate (if you will try to mezz the guy doing the captures, you will be in sniper's vision cone).

The sniper rolls into cover, and starts gaining stealth detection levels, he might as well activate entrench. The other dude is capturing.

What is your plan to delay the capture for as long as possible? Do you seek to sleep the sniper before he gets to cover? when will you use sneak?
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

AngelofCain's Avatar


AngelofCain
02.22.2013 , 08:23 AM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
So the idea is you close in the distance while looking for a way to stay out of LoS, then make a quick roll to get behind the sniper so that you can open on him.

Lets take another scenario,
You are defending a node alone, the sniper comes with some other class, lets say somebody with no stealth detection.
The other dude comes to node and starts capturing. The sniper position himself somewhat behind so he can have within his cone of vision his team mate (if you will try to mezz the guy doing the captures, you will be in sniper's vision cone).

The sniper rolls into cover, and starts gaining stealth detection levels, he might as well activate entrench. The other dude is capturing.

What is your plan to delay the capture for as long as possible? Do you seek to sleep the sniper before he gets to cover? when will you use sneak?

if it's a visible 2 v1 coming up you shouldn't of let them come up together. In this scenario I always try to sleep someone off the node before attacking on the node. it just gives some distance and room to breathe. So come sniper let us play, you can sleep in the yard while your friend dies on the node.
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Wainamoinen's Avatar


Wainamoinen
02.22.2013 , 08:28 AM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
The real problem right now are guardians. New Shield chance against Tech + Reflect is a big danger.
Was thinking about that, it's a worry.

I believe I remember that crit and shield are decided on the same roll, and that crit pushes shield off the table.

Anyway, this means that if you crit, it's not shielded.

So if you get the crit, you're going to get big numbers shielded or not. Fail, and your normal hit could well be pathetic.

If I remember this mechanic right - it's been a while since I was looking at it, I didn't pay attention because it didn't apply to me, and mechanics might change in 2.0 - then so long as we crit we're still causing pain to people with shields. Bit hit-and-miss though.
There will be blood, it might be yours;
So go kill someone - signed, Bad Horse

Ilmarinen 65 Scoundrel (Red Eclipse)

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
02.22.2013 , 08:32 AM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by AngelofCain View Post
if it's a visible 2 v1 coming up you shouldn't of let them come up together. In this scenario I always try to sleep someone off the node before attacking on the node. it just gives some distance and room to breathe. So come sniper let us play, you can sleep in the yard while your friend dies on the node.
So you are basically saying that you will need to come ahead and intercept and do anything possible not to allow the sniper to reach the node with his buddy together?
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

Wainamoinen's Avatar


Wainamoinen
02.22.2013 , 08:37 AM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
See Ilmarinen how much i am doing for you, so that you could kill me?
haha missed that earlier - you're too, too generous. I shall do my best to repay you in lovely warm lead.
There will be blood, it might be yours;
So go kill someone - signed, Bad Horse

Ilmarinen 65 Scoundrel (Red Eclipse)