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Jugger or PT ??

andrelb's Avatar


andrelb
02.18.2013 , 10:13 PM | #1
Hello, im coming back to the game from a long time ago, and i was thinking what class to roll... so i chose to be a hard and tough tanke, i dont care about my DPS, only about the survivabilit on both, PvP and PvE..

so, what class did you guys think is harder to be killed?? who has better survivabilit and defensive skills and CD??? Pt/Vanguard or jugger/Guandian???

thx alot

KarathAnno's Avatar


KarathAnno
02.19.2013 , 04:56 PM | #2
Short answer:
The Juggernaut is tougher.

Long answer:
The Power Tech has moderately better passive survivability but substantially worse defensive cool-downs/active survivability. In PvE the difference is not huge but in PvP the Juggernaut can take much more focused fire, especially if you are a hybrid spec Juggernaut.

Also although I know you said you do not care but its worth noting that the Power Tech is much better at getting and holding agro, particularly against large groups.

andrelb's Avatar


andrelb
02.20.2013 , 09:11 AM | #3
Thx alot... i was looking at the skills and talents tree, and the jugg look realy better, he has the shieldwhen use the shout "screen" invencible, saber ward, passive def increase talents, and the oneon the midle tree whos bring me 20% mitigation everytime i did a jump..

i was at first more inclined to go as a PT... buti didnt see mutch talents or skills that give more survivabilit, like def/armor increase, shields, damage absortion or mitigation, it is more like he get some area damage and effects for area control.. is im wrong???

and why did you say he gets more passive survivabilit??? he gets more armor??

and about all the tankers, is the shadow/assasin the one with less survivabilit and focus fire mitigation??

thx

KarathAnno's Avatar


KarathAnno
02.20.2013 , 11:51 AM | #4
Glad to be of help.

For what it is worth I have leveled all three tanks to 50 and the one I use endgame in my Juggernaut Immortal/Vengeance hybrid. Here is my take on them.

Assassin: Played to perfection this is the most effective tank. It has great utility, awesome damage/threat, and if you know the fights and use all your cooldowns, self heals, etc is also the most survivable. However a poorly played sin is by far the least survivable tank and for that reason they have poor reputation.

Power Tech: The least complex of all the tanks. Also the most gear dependent as the majority of their survivability is passive. Lots of AoE damage which is good for trash fights and allows them to hold agro better then the Juggernaut. They have the worst defensive cooldowns which combined with their reliance on Shield/Absorption make them the worst PvP tanks.

Juggernaut: Combines the passive survivability of the Power Tech with the best general use defensive cooldowns (sins have the better cooldowns but they are very damage specific). Can be amazingly hard to kill but pays for it by having by far the worst damage/threat generation of any tank. Large groups can be incredibly frustrating to tank as a Juggernaut.

What I love about the juggernaut is their ability to move. Force Leap, Force Push, and Intercede work together to create a truly fun play style. However fun is wholly subjective and I have a friend who hates her jugg but loves her sin tank.

I also feel that the top half if the Juggernaut tanking tree is awful and use an Immortal/Vengeance hybrid. It has worse rage generation and AoE threat but better survivability and single target damage (Edit: I will be surprised if this spec survives the expansion and will be very sad when it comes unless a lot of improvements are made to the Immortal line).

A lot of the PT talents increase both damage and survivability so it can be easy to miss them. Here is a rundown of the survivability buffs you can get by lv50 from talents.

Shield Tech:
Combust: Lower the damage enemies do by 5% (active)
Rebraced Armor: +16% armor (passive)
Shield Vents: +2% Shield Chance (passive)
Oil Slick: Reduces enemies accuracy by 20% for 18 Sec, 1 min cooldown. (active)
Ablative Upgrades: +4% absorption and reduces the cooldown on Lolto Overload by 1 min. (passive and active)
Ion Screen: +2% damage reduction (passive)
Empowered Tech: +6% shield chance (passive)
Heat Screen: +8% absorption (active)

Advanced Prototype:
Power Armor: +2% damage reduction (passive)

Pyrotech:
Integrated Cargo Package: +3% Endurance (passive)

andrelb's Avatar


andrelb
02.20.2013 , 12:36 PM | #5
That was great, thx a lot bro... im leveling a Jugger from now, and im at lvl 31, full imortal spec, i got a full foundry set, but im felling a " 10 seconds tanker" for pvps, because when i do not have saber ward or imortal, i got killed so easy, i dont know if i need better gear of if this is how the juggers play... but i got to say, i love my jump -> push -> jump and the chocke for PVPs... the PvE is great from now and im capable to easy tank any boss until now...

but i just pruch my new Naga Razor Elit mouse with 17 buttons, and may be i could be a better tank as a Assasin/Shadow, or evan a Shield Tec/ Vanguard, what would you sugest for high PvP Survival?????

and thx again for the review from your gameplay

KarathAnno's Avatar


KarathAnno
02.20.2013 , 02:12 PM | #6
Since you seem reasonably happy with PvE on your Juggernaut I'm going to focus on the PvP side of things. Please keep in mind though that I am not an expert at PvP. I enjoy it on my Juggernaut but more then 90% of my time is spent on the PvE side of the game.

I would not suggest making a Power Tech if you want to PvP tank (although they have a really, really good damage spec). Both from personal experience and from reading the forms I think they are the very worst PvP tank.

The Juggernaut vs Assassin is a harder question and comes down in part on what you want to do with your tank in PvP. The Jug is probably the best tank there is for defending a healer, where as the Sin is much more versatile and almost certainly better then the Jug when alone/without healer support. I feel both require about the same amount of skill and button mashing to be effective but are very different in why/what they need to be aware of.

There are a couple things going on that contribute to your feeling like a 10 second PvP tank, some of these get better and some will always be a problem. The first is that both the Jug and the Sin don't get some key abilities until the later levels.

The second is that enough focused fire will drop anyone quickly so there are times where your just going to take a dirt nap unless you have healer support. Here the Sin has the advantage because it has more escape options.

Finally gearing as a tank for PvP is very different then gearing to tank PvE content because of how the defensive stats work. Defense and Shield/Absorb only apply to Melee and Ranged attacks. In addition you will never shield a critical hit.

In PvE this is not a big deal because the vast majority of mobs attacks are Melee/Ranged and never crit. In PvP though many classes are based around Force/Tech attacks and there are a lot of classes that either automatically crit or have vastly inflated crit chances.

So in PvE you want to stack a mix of defensive stats (Defense, Shield, and Absorb) where as in PvP you need to stack Endurance and maybe Defense. I know as you're leveling up you don't really have a lot of optins for gear but once you hit 50 it will make a very big difference

andrelb's Avatar


andrelb
02.20.2013 , 02:24 PM | #7
Thx again for your time =]