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Test of Repair Costs


Elyxin's Avatar


Elyxin
02.19.2013 , 09:43 PM | #91
Excellent thread guys! I appreciate the math and testing a great deal, and the discussion about the economy is just as valuable. Im currently not playing my lvl 50's atm, due to the combination of the new event and the prices of repairs hope this changes soon.

Niaymh's Avatar


Niaymh
02.19.2013 , 10:15 PM | #92
The OPs entire post is flawed because I don't think you understand what the fix actually was, the patch notes are pretty clear tbh.

Quote:
Item sell values and item repair costs now reflect the value of the items and any enhancements attached to them. Previously, items were incorrectly being valued without their enhancements.
What this says to me, is that repair costs (and sell values) have always been calculated based off the value of the item (shell) but before 1.7 an orange chest piece would cost the same to repair whether you had Tionese or Dread Guard stuff in it.

Do the same test again with Columi mods in the items and I bet, they'll cost more to repair, that means the bug they were trying to fix has been fixed. The reason repairs were so cheap before 1.7 is that you were only paying for repairing the item shell and were paying nothing for any of the mods you have in it.

I didn't test repair costs before 1.7, so I can't say that I'm 100% right on this but that's what it looks like to me. I'm not saying that the repair costs are right as they are, clearly some people are getting mental repair bills, just how I think they're working.

Thylbanus's Avatar


Thylbanus
02.19.2013 , 10:16 PM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by Ilith View Post
This is incorrect. The Cartel Market only moves existing credits around between players; it does not cause inflation (a generalized rise in prices due to increased money supply). The money supply has not increased. If some players become wealthy due to reselling CM purchases, they can bid up prices of certain items, but it does not cause inflation. If you could vendor all your junk from Cartel Packs for major credits, that would be inflationary... but you can't. So you don't get inflation, what you get is increased economic inequality between players who can afford to resell Cartel items and those who can't. If there are more credits in game now than at launch it's because there are more players running dailies (credit faucet). There will always be some wealthy players. The source of their wealth differs, that's all. (Selling Cartel items vs. crafting vs. grinding dailies.)

The repair cost change hurts aspiring eldergame raiders. Meanwhile, an enormous transfer of credits is happening from PVEers to PVPers as PVPers RE their WH gear and sell the stabilizers. The market is flooded on my server. PVPers have less need for credits because their gear can't be crafted and they have no repair costs. A PVPer in my guild earned over 150 million credits in a couple of weeks. This is a giant transfer of credits from PVEers to PVPers -- who will use it to bid up the prices of random things on the GTN -- while PVEers have been hit with doubled or tripled repair costs. This is extremely unbalancing to the game economy.

Both of these changers are relatively recent: The combination is a very bad sign for the game. I sincerely hope BW makes changes fast.
But to follow that along, if the PvE players don't have the disposable income, they can no longer support the PvP players outrageous pricing. Wouldn't that be a balancing factor?


Quote: Originally Posted by BobaScott View Post
Seriously, I didn't read a word of either. Being concise is a virtue.
It's OK, reading isn't for everyone.
It's amazing how loud a dollar can be.
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristin Wilson

abokado's Avatar


abokado
02.19.2013 , 10:19 PM | #94
Huh, guess I'm gonna get my alt some WH shells since my main just got fully augmented..
But I saw something funny today. Did LI HM with some guildies, died a bit because I just dinged 50 and the healer was pretty fresh; the repair costs were 62k and I only had 38k on me. Ha. Ha. Ha. Good thing my guildie lend me some money or I would had to fight Lorrick with no gloves and boots because they were broken.
But this really sucks.. I am in cartel market gear because of vanity reasons and now just because I don't want to look like crap I have to pay ****loads of rep money? I hate this.

Totaltrash's Avatar


Totaltrash
02.20.2013 , 01:26 AM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by Niaymh View Post
The OPs entire post is flawed because I don't think you understand what the fix actually was, the patch notes are pretty clear tbh.



What this says to me, is that repair costs (and sell values) have always been calculated based off the value of the item (shell) but before 1.7 an orange chest piece would cost the same to repair whether you had Tionese or Dread Guard stuff in it.
Game Update 1.2 - Legacy
4/12/2012
•Modifiable items now have repair costs based on the level of their base modification.


Prior to 1.7, repairs were calculated by the level of the armorings, NOT the sales price of shell.
I can say that was indeed the case, since I had a mixture of gear pieces, all 63, but some PVP, some orange, some PVE shells and all of them costs about the same to repair.

But it is entirely possible that enhancements were not factored in, I cannot say either way.
Also, we have no way to verify that now, so we have to take Bioware's word for it.

However, if enhancements were indeed not factored in, our repair bills should only be 7-17% higher than prior to 1.7., because that's the percentage range an enhancement contributes to the total repair cost (see table).

I think most people would have been ok with a 7-17% increase, but clearly, that is not the case!
Many people experience much, much higher repair bills now!

My tests show that the additional cost comes from shells (see table):
Shells with high sales value make repair costs jump up dramatically!

Game Update 1.7: Return of the Gree
2/12/2013
•Item sell values and item repair costs now reflect the value of the items and any enhancements attached to them. Previously, items were incorrectly being valued without their enhancements.


Hence, Bioware's claim that they just included the value of the enhancements omitted in 1.2 is simply false!

TheDuge's Avatar


TheDuge
02.20.2013 , 06:41 AM | #96
Actually I still don't understand why BW was lying.

Game Update 1.7: Return of the Gree
2/12/2013
•Item sell values and item repair costs now reflect the value of the items and any enhancements attached to them. Previously, items were incorrectly being valued without their enhancements.


There are no lies in here. As the OP said before the 1.7 update the repair cost was determined by only the armoring. (I wonder what the situation was with non modable gear.) Now it is determined by the armoring, mods, enhancements and the base cost of the shell. Exactly as told in the update. These four things determine the cost together. The fact that the base cost of the shell plays a bigger role in the determination of the repair cost than the others doesn't make the above statement a lie.
Or I am missing something..

Burning-Beard's Avatar


Burning-Beard
02.20.2013 , 10:18 AM | #97
This is a pretty excellent and eye-opening thread. As a quick, completely un-scientific test, I took my level 12 Operative out into Dromund Kaas with his fully-repaired gear that included two of the Exalted legacy pieces and two Cartel armor pieces. I took a pot shot at a thing and hit /stuck to die and take a flat 10% durability loss.

Repair bill: 2111. At level 12.

http://db.tt/F5oipuPN <- The repair screen for that one death.

A couple notes: The gloves, chest, legs, gun, and helmet all had blue level 11 mods and enhancements, with crappy green level 8 mods to fill in. The Despot's boots actually had no mods in them whatsoever.

Edit: Well I guess it doesn't really matter now, since Bioware finally weighed in on it. At least it's being fixed.

Elyxin's Avatar


Elyxin
02.20.2013 , 11:55 AM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by TheDuge View Post
Actually I still don't understand why BW was lying.

Game Update 1.7: Return of the Gree
2/12/2013
•Item sell values and item repair costs now reflect the value of the items and any enhancements attached to them. Previously, items were incorrectly being valued without their enhancements.


There are no lies in here. As the OP said before the 1.7 update the repair cost was determined by only the armoring. (I wonder what the situation was with non modable gear.) Now it is determined by the armoring, mods, enhancements and the base cost of the shell. Exactly as told in the update. These four things determine the cost together. The fact that the base cost of the shell plays a bigger role in the determination of the repair cost than the others doesn't make the above statement a lie.
Or I am missing something..
I think this is an important point for those who are accusing Bio of lying. While I don't like the results of the patch, and I too think they broke something, and I too think that it needs to change fast (I'm not tanking any FP's atm...heck, im not even running my lvl 50's atm due to the current state of the game), given the fact that enhancements DO currently impact the repari costs (just a smaller amount then the gear vaule itself), perhaps in their attempts to add the enhancements back in, they actually broke another aspect of the equation?

It's possible that this is simply another one of those situations where they ended up adding more bugs in the process of fixing a different one. Definitely needs to get fixed, but I would hesitate to call them liars. inefficient yes, and they lack QA on their changes for sure, but liars? jury's still out on that one.

but...something I want to post for Bio...this is the kind of stuff that would scream out on PTR's...I knew that them throwing a patch out there without a PTR as a bad idea, and this shows it. instead of people clamoring on test dummies on the PTR, you have live accounts being impacted in serious ways...

...I can't believe that Bio thought putting out a major patch without a test period first could be any benefit. But you reap what you sow...

Thylbanus's Avatar


Thylbanus
02.20.2013 , 07:59 PM | #99
Moot point, they now have stated they will be fixing it in the next maintenance cycle, and there will be a 50% reduction in costs beyond that until RotHC launches.
It's amazing how loud a dollar can be.
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristin Wilson

Levity's Avatar


Levity
02.28.2013 , 03:45 PM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by iamthehoyden View Post
You're mistaking correlation for causation. ANY mmo will develop inflation whether they have a f2p market or not (unless the gold sinks are finely tuned) because there are lots of ways to create credits out of thin air (dailies, killing mobs, looting chests). In this particular f2p set up, the cartel market items cannot be sold to vendors (which would create credits) but instead are sold to other players. That's a transfer of credits, not credit creation (and to be technical, it's a gold sink if they use the GTN as the game takes a fee out of the transaction, ergo a net loss to the amount of credit in the game). The credit faucets are the cause of inflation (too many credits being created), not the transfers of wealth among players.

Edited: And TotalTrash, your testing is much appreciated. (Sorry for semi-derailing the thread :\)
And you missed the complete point of what I said. All the cartel market does is give people an easy way to gain currency. It doesn't "create credits." I've never said HEY I PLAYED THIS F2P GAME AND I BOIUGHT A BUNCH OF **** I SOLD TO A VENDOR FOR CRAZY AMOUNTS OF INGAME MONEY did I? No. People have an easy way to buy in bulk with an out side source in game items that can be sold in pieces for medium sums of credits that add up to a crazy amount of credits. When a lot of the population starts to do this and everyone starts having millions of credits people will by nature inflate the price of items on what they can sell them for. So if you have millions and millions of credits this item costs 10k when it normally costs 1k but who the **** cares? I have millions!!!

That's not an issue when a vast MINORITY has that kind of money. It is an issue when the MAJORITY begin to have that kind of currecny. And all you do by adding a cash shop is make it extremely easy for the MAJORIY to gain in game currency. Yes the in game currency is being moved between players, cool story. Games economies inflate in two ways, a dupe where people can gain currency by selling stuff to a vendor and making rediculous money, or everyone having an easy way to that source of currency. And guess what? A cash shop is an easy way to that currency.

So I say this, jo smo who plays 10 days a month and doesn't really have a lot of credits but has money in real life to just blow randomly. He buys 80 dollars of cartel coins and buys those cartel packs, bam he makes 6 million credits. And he does this once every month. A lot of people do this. Look at the continuous stream of packs on the gtn. (Yes some people open them we get that. Most people probably don't!) So there's no work involved there, someone who hardly plays the game makes money easy. So that becomes apperent to everyone that making money is just buying some cartel packs and selling them and then bam I have currency. There's nothing a credit sink will do when everyone in the game has 298343623 credits. And more and more people will do it. More and more people will have millions. And more and more people will just buy whatever for whatever price making people put things up for higher prices.

And guess what? I already do that. Do you think Terenthium always sold for 700-1000 x 1? No it didn't.

I'll say it again. In a couple more years I will repost this with an "I was wrong" or an "I was right."