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CC why dont all CC count towards resolve????????????????????

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
CC why dont all CC count towards resolve????????????????????

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
02.11.2013 , 09:45 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
Ultimately, the way roots and slows presently work is far too entwined with what little class balance we currently have. Changing that system would break a lot more than it would fix.
We'll need to agree to disagree Larry. CC's are so far out of **edit**ing control in this game that I am for ANY change that reduces their overwhelming impact.

We have 1 CC breaker on a 2min cooldown and every class has access to 4 or more CC's. The disparity between CC breakers and CC's is MASSIVE! I'd take my chances at breaking PvP "balance" in favor of reduced CC's...because the current system is an absolute failure imo. Of course I'm not certain, but I would bet that the sheer frustration of CC's in PvP has driven off more PvP players than any other game mechanic.
All warfare is based on deception. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected. If his forces are united, separate them. If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near. A leader leads by example not by force.

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
02.11.2013 , 09:54 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
I play 2 troopers, a Commando (yeah yeah, really funny) and a Vanguard. NEITHER have any roots...it's the leap to root that does me in 99% of the time. So please explain how this would require a nerf to melee?!??? I don't get this...
You don't understand it, I, a Sniper, will root the Sentinel so that he cannot jump at you and kill you. See? Now take the legshot away from me, and i will not be able to save your butt.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
02.11.2013 , 09:54 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
We'll need to agree to disagree Larry. CC's are so far out of **edit**ing control in this game that I am for ANY change that reduces their overwhelming impact.

We have 1 CC breaker on a 2min cooldown and every class has access to 4 or more CC's. The disparity between CC breakers and CC's is MASSIVE! I'd take my chances at breaking PvP "balance" in favor of reduced CC's...because the current system is an absolute failure imo. Of course I'm not certain, but I would bet that the sheer frustration of CC's in PvP has driven off more PvP players than any other game mechanic.
We do indeed disagree, but it's all based on theory. You know what would be cool? For Bioware to announce and then implement a week where you can't be rooted when you are white-barred. And/or maybe some of the other suggestions given by people when it comes to cc (shorter cc breaker cooldown is one of the few reasonable ones I can think of). They could alternatively put it on the pts server.

Then we could actually try it and provide feedback. Let's face it, this would not be hard to code, and a week of different pvp mechanics would not affect anything (oh noes! My preseason rated ranking!). But things like this won't happen in swtor because it's not a primary focus of theirs.
A classic sig that should not be lost:
Quote:
Stunned , pew pew hack slash , stunned , running backward circles, stunned cannot move, pew pew, break stun, 30 second snare, wha?!?!!? stunned, knockdown, ...less stun more pew pew and hacknslash please.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
02.11.2013 , 10:04 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
We do indeed disagree, but it's all based on theory. You know what would be cool? For Bioware to announce and then implement a week where you can't be rooted when you are white-barred. And/or maybe some of the other suggestions given by people when it comes to cc (shorter cc breaker cooldown is one of the few reasonable ones I can think of). They could alternatively put it on the pts server.

Then we could actually try it and provide feedback. Let's face it, this would not be hard to code, and a week of different pvp mechanics would not affect anything (oh noes! My preseason rated ranking!). But things like this won't happen in swtor because it's not a primary focus of theirs.
I would love that!!! If they just threw it on the test server for a week...nothing live, nothing permanent. Just test a few changes to Resolve until we get some form of an acceptable system. If they asked for volunteers, I'd gladly go. The CC's in this game are so damaging (imo) that I'd dedicate all of my play time to testing different solutions. I feel that strongly about this issue.
All warfare is based on deception. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected. If his forces are united, separate them. If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near. A leader leads by example not by force.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
02.11.2013 , 10:07 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
You don't understand it, I, a Sniper, will root the Sentinel so that he cannot jump at you and kill you. See? Now take the legshot away from me, and i will not be able to save your butt.
Your one root doesn't compare to the other 2-4 smashers who leap to me and destroy me while I can't do a damn thing. And good luck guessing which of the 4 are going to leap.
All warfare is based on deception. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected. If his forces are united, separate them. If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near. A leader leads by example not by force.

NogueiraA's Avatar


NogueiraA
02.11.2013 , 11:20 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
Adding roots to resolve would require a massive nerf to melee DPS specs to balance it out.
Nerf to melee?? Let's see the difference between a marauder and a Sniper..
With all power/surge min/max, 1350+ expertise marauder, my numbers are:
Mara big hit Annihilation - 4.5k max Annihilate when crits...
Carnage - 6k last hit from ravage, 5k force scream..
Smash - 6.5k smash, 4k force scream.

Sniper big hits on me:
Followtrough 4.5k
Ambush 6.2k
Snipe 3.4k
Series of Shots 2.1k per shot, 4x2.1k = 8.4k in 1 skill... (you can not complain about smash damage, only because it's aoe).

The big hits it's almost the same, you have a lot of defensive cooldowns, you can kill a melee easily.
Roots from a sniper it's like a second stun, because you have 2 seconds to damage me and I can do nothing to stop you.

Instant root - 1.5sec cast 2.5k Snipe + 4k Followtrough... I'm still rooted, you have 3 seconds to use another GCD.
Root again from the knockback - 1.5sec (MM) Ambush.. I'm still rooted.
Finally I can reach the sniper, 4sec stun and melee is dead. CC breaker? Flashbang and sniper has 8sec to run, damage me from 35m distance, instant root again and you know what happens.

So, a nerf to melee it's not needed..
A nerf for Assassin, yes they need a nerf in crowd control.
A nerf for Powertech? They need a nerf in crowd control.

cycao's Avatar


cycao
02.11.2013 , 11:27 AM | #27
I wouldn't be opposed for having roots and snares having its own resolve system.

Tamanous's Avatar


Tamanous
02.11.2013 , 11:29 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by NogueiraA View Post
Nerf to melee?? Let's see the difference between a marauder and a Sniper..
With all power/surge min/max, 1350+ expertise marauder, my numbers are:
Mara big hit Annihilation - 4.5k max Annihilate when crits...
Carnage - 6k last hit from ravage, 5k force scream..
Smash - 6.5k smash, 4k force scream.

Sniper big hits on me:
Followtrough 4.5k
Ambush 6.2k
Snipe 3.4k
Series of Shots 2.1k per shot, 4x2.1k = 8.4k in 1 skill... (you can not complain about smash damage, only because it's aoe).

The big hits it's almost the same, you have a lot of defensive cooldowns, you can kill a melee easily.
Roots from a sniper it's like a second stun, because you have 2 seconds to damage me and I can do nothing to stop you.

Instant root - 1.5sec cast 2.5k Snipe + 4k Followtrough... I'm still rooted, you have 3 seconds to use another GCD.
Root again from the knockback - 1.5sec (MM) Ambush.. I'm still rooted.
Finally I can reach the sniper, 4sec stun and melee is dead. CC breaker? Flashbang and sniper has 8sec to run, damage me from 35m distance, instant root again and you know what happens.

So, a nerf to melee it's not needed..
A nerf for Assassin, yes they need a nerf in crowd control.
A nerf for Powertech? They need a nerf in crowd control.
You completely miss the point.

It isn't a matter of how much damage ranged vs melee does but the defenses they have when at melee range. Melee classes are typically given the mitigation tools to stay alive in melee range. Ranged classes don't. They are typically given tools to keep enemies away from them.

So if you want to nerf snares and slows then Bioware will have to nerf the survivability of melee classes at melee range. It is the same difference. It has NOTHING to do with damage.

There are many tools available for most classes to try to deal with snares and slows. They have to be timed and used accordingly just like ranged classes have to time their defenses against melee attackers.

Let's remember that root/snares do not stop you from attacking and using powers (unless out of range). There is a huge difference between them and other CC abilities. They are core defenses for some classes who lack passive or reactionary defenses against direct damage.

ebado's Avatar


ebado
02.11.2013 , 11:31 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
I wouldn't be opposed for having roots and snares having its own resolve system.
It took 27 posts but we finally got the answer.
kolto and corrosives
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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
02.11.2013 , 11:38 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by ebado View Post
It took 27 posts but we finally got the answer.
Thank God!!! Now we can end this debate once and for...err...like 6 hours before the next thread.
All warfare is based on deception. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected. If his forces are united, separate them. If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near. A leader leads by example not by force.