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My hat off to people who play dedicated tanks

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
My hat off to people who play dedicated tanks

Marb's Avatar


Marb
02.06.2013 , 11:15 AM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackardin View Post
Please don't ever raid. LOL

I've been leading raids, progression raiding for a very long time. You would last about two minutes in one of my raids as you are the classic example of what not to do, and how not to do it LOL. I'm going to further guess that you've never raided in any organized fashion and are simply a troublesome pug-monkey and that very dps that everyone tends to complain about.

Your lack of knowledge and understanding would not be bad in and of itself except for the arrogance that allows you to assume this wildly distorted belief is even close to correct in any raiding situation. I could give you a full page lecture as to what you are doing wrong, and why, but I'd be wasting my time because of that very attitude that allows you to be so bad. You are not "pro" LOL. You doing it exactly wrong.

....and no, that is not how taunt works in this game. *sigh*
Yes it *is* how taunt works in this game. You are doing it exactly wrong.

In an ops, there are enrage timers for a reason. DPS are not responsible for pandering to an inexperienced tank, or a tank that refuses to taunt. Playing the game at the highest level of progression requires 100% from every class at all times. I predict your raids hitting enrage, because of your terrible misunderstanding of threat mechanics, and expecting dps to help you hold threat. This doesn't fly in nightmare ops.

I would never want to raid with you if you don't even know how taunt works. You make massive assumptions about the class dynamics in this game which is, I suspect, carried over from another game. You should take the time to learn the specifics of the game you are playing. *You* are precisely what you accuse Sydexlic of being.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sydexlic View Post
Besides, assuming approximately equal gear, tank threat is superior, given equal player skill between the tank and a dps.
The only thing I have issue with, is this misconception. Taking taunts out of the picture, an assassin is the only tank that is going to meet your expectation. Powertechs *may* need to taunt after their opener (a good burst should still rip it off them), and guardians must roll 2 or more taunts in order to gain a solid lead. As far as threat per second, 2 out of the 3 tank classes are *not* equal to the potential dps output of a well played, BiS sniper, mara, or pyro.

The best thing to keep in mind as a dps, is what tank classes you are playing with. A guardian is going to have significant trouble holding threat in the opening stages of any encounter where he has to kite or move a boss, or gain threat on separated ranged packs. Even a stationary tank and spank phase like writhing terror requires a pretty spot on opening burst in addition to well timed taunts for a guardian to hold it...

...What I really mean to say is, just feel bad for that guardian who's breaking his keyboard trying to hold threat for you.
Zerkhan - Harbinger

ARCCommanderDan's Avatar


ARCCommanderDan
02.06.2013 , 12:42 PM | #92
In my honest opinion, it's only worth tanking if you're a vanguard or power tech. People seem to prefer them more than guardians or juggs in flashpoints and operations. I've also noticed that its a HUGE pain in the *** if you're tanking in warzones unless you max out your HP to 26k or more...so it's always good to be in a good guild that gets you geared if you're looking to tank in warzones. As for PvE, it can be tough raiding with a guild if you're a fresh 50 because you only need 2 tanks at most for raids and alot of guilds aren't looking for tanks most of the time.

MillionsKNives's Avatar


MillionsKNives
02.06.2013 , 12:49 PM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by ARCCommanderDan View Post
In my honest opinion, it's only worth tanking if you're a vanguard or power tech. People seem to prefer them more than guardians or juggs in flashpoints and operations. I've also noticed that its a HUGE pain in the *** if you're tanking in warzones unless you max out your HP to 26k or more...so it's always good to be in a good guild that gets you geared if you're looking to tank in warzones. As for PvE, it can be tough raiding with a guild if you're a fresh 50 because you only need 2 tanks at most for raids and alot of guilds aren't looking for tanks most of the time.
I think you're forgetting that there are 3 tanks. Also, all three tanks are viable at endgame, Juggs/Guardians will likely just have a harder time of it.

magecutter's Avatar


magecutter
02.06.2013 , 01:41 PM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by Sydexlic View Post
I can and do pull threat off any pug tank I come across, but I'm sure as hell not going to throttle my output to match the tank. I don't mind, and almost always the healer doesn't mind, having to heal a bit of extra damage as long as the run is being made 5-10 minutes shorter.
__________________________________________________ _________________
Quote: Originally Posted by LordSkyKnight View Post
I think you are missing valid points that have been posted throughout this thread. This is exactly the behavior that is not wanted in flashpoints. The mentality of, I don't give a crap and everyone else just has to deal with it just chases people off and gets you put on ignore lists. Perhaps you should step back and think about this.
yes, LordSkyKnight has it right imho. I can only speak as a Sentinel/DPS... (tho I have a 50 vanguard and understand tanking quite well) - and as a sent I know we play a support roll in groups we are not the whole show.

A tanks job is to keep as many bads as possible focused on him/her self.... it's a sents job to help them do that by taking out/burning down the trash asap and if some adds have focused the healer we take the pressure off them by killing or kiting the adds back to the tank so the healers can do their job.

then and only then do we start burning down the boss (there are exceptions to this of course but it is the base line/starting point strategy for any sentinel).

the only time I try to draw aggro is if I see the tank/healer combo is having trouble and I need to take the pressure off them for a few seconds while their cd's come back on line. then I hit 'force camo' back away, drop threat, and I'm ready to force leap back to continue the burns.

synergy - a good group has a synergy that compliments each class and does not compete.

bottom line? if ya want to play a tank then roll a tank. a good dps'er knows how to support the team not compete against it.
hey little crazy person... time to go for a nice shuttle ride. - J Cobb

Sydexlic's Avatar


Sydexlic
02.06.2013 , 11:37 PM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by Heezdedjim View Post
This might be valid if you're grinding FPs with a hilariously overgeared group (i.e., a DPS in 63 gear). If you're already geared at that level though, I am not sure why you're PUGing hardmodes anyway. Also, if everyone is that overgeared, then who gets guarded isn't going to matter, because you're going to roflstomp everything.

I guard healers because (1) if the healer dies, it's more likely to lead to a wipe than if a DPS goes down, and even if they're not close enough for the damage reduction to kick in, they still get the threat mitigation; and (2) on average, in random PUGs with people whose gearing and abilities you don't know, it's more likely that the healer will be working harder, and therefore generating more aggro, compared with any random DPS.

If there weren't so many bads in PUGs, then maybe this would not be true. But I'm not going to waste a guard on DPS that can't manage to focus fire or run away when they have a huge red rotating target at their feet for ten seconds before they get obliterated by the boss's special. Since DPS are probably close enough for the damage redirect on guard to work, guarding the average bad just makes it more likely that I will die at some point (and the group will wipe) because of their stupid mistakes.
You guard healers because you don't understand how healers generate threat. Healers generate 0.5 threat per effective healing done. Not only is this only .5 threat per 1 healing gnerated MUCH less threat than the DPS threat generation rates, the threat generated is divided by all the creatures the healer was noticed by. i.e, if there is a pull of 5 mobs, the healers threat will be divided 5 ways, each mob will gain only 0.1 threat per 1 point of healing. What does this mean? It basically means all you need to do is look at a mob sternly and it will ignore the healer. Any damage at all will most likely be enough to keep it off the healer, so if your healer is dying, it's pretty much the tanks fault with or without guard.

THIS is why you ALWAYS guard the DPS and NOT the healer.

Consider yourself edumacated.

Sydexlic's Avatar


Sydexlic
02.06.2013 , 11:42 PM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackardin View Post
Please don't ever raid. LOL

I've been leading raids, progression raiding for a very long time. You would last about two minutes in one of my raids as you are the classic example of what not to do, and how not to do it LOL. I'm going to further guess that you've never raided in any organized fashion and are simply a troublesome pug-monkey and that very dps that everyone tends to complain about.
Sorry, too late. I already have the Warstalker title and was 2nd in the world to clear EC NiM with my raid.

For proof of my claims, check out my youtube channel at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrGryph7...ew=0&flow=grid

With that said, I'm quite confident in my assertion that I'd not want to go anywhere near your mediocre guild.

Josh_'s Avatar


Josh_
02.07.2013 , 12:11 AM | #97
I have always gone for the DPS role in MMO's and currently have a level 50 assassin but going to be working on a tank soon unsure of which.

Im not one of these idiots in flashpoints that you mention but I know where your coming from, I do like knowing that Im the one doing the most damage but I haven't done this sort of stuff. But I have seen it from a fellow dps in the group trying to show off and prove he can do everything as good as everyone else.

Any tank or healer has my appreciation, it's something I have always struggled to enjoy doing and when DPS run around like headless chickens I can understand how annoying it is, I have witnessed it first hand.

And also a little off topic has anyone else had a healer deciding they fancy getting stuck into the fight and being a have a go hero rather than healing their tank? I have had this 2 or 3 times over the last few days and has to be one of the most annoying things I have had. Wouldn't listen and just stick to healing, wanted to pull my hair out.

Nigredo's Avatar


Nigredo
02.07.2013 , 12:28 AM | #98
i have one of each tank for Empire side and while i love tanking i rarely can stand to do anything with pugs... but i do it 3xday like a bad habit... I'm in a program now ....12 step for my sadistic addiction but it's a process...
Llofnod dileu o ganlyniad i cymedrolwyr facist

Amlici's Avatar


Amlici
02.07.2013 , 12:32 AM | #99
One thing i do like about tanking in this game is that light armour tanks are viable. I would prefer to be healing a Vanguard or Powertech tank anyday but it's fun playing my lowbie Shadow tank now and then.
Amlici 50 Operative Onti 50 Scoundrel
Dalborra APAC

Esproc's Avatar


Esproc
02.07.2013 , 04:06 AM | #100
So many people do not understand the fundamental basics of threat in this game that it is a wonder tanks are given a hard time over holding aggro.

This isn't that faceroll game you may be used to, you know the one, where only half the group is needed to roll the bosses.

I suggest you go back to reading up on the developers responses to how the mechanics of threat work in this game. You will probably find out that you are wrong and misusing such simple things as your positioning in the fight.

As for guarding the healer, if they are too far from the tank, it is useless to do so, and you are better off guarding the higher dps.

In short, learn the mechanics of the game, all classes and roles, to better handle the situations. If you don't, then it's a good deal that you are in error.

And please, stop breaking the CC'd mobs, that's the tanks job.
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