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A Theory-Crafting Adventure in Expertise

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
A Theory-Crafting Adventure in Expertise

MelliMelon's Avatar


MelliMelon
02.02.2013 , 11:59 PM | #1
Hey all. I made the following spreadsheet to calculate the optimal expertise level for a DPS. It might still be buggy so feel free to play with it and let me know any oversights.. Basically, I input my base stats in (practically) full Elite War Hero gear as a DPS scoundrel. I then checked to make sure all my formulas were accurate. You can change the fields on the right to swap out expertise for power crystals (+82 power/expertise for both crystals) and add a Dread Guard mod (32*1.14 more cunning, since I have all the buffs and the 9% cunning talent).

I then calculate my average damage with blaster whip and the average I will receive and give to a fully expertise player.

Also, an IMGUR link here for 2 power crystals and 2 dread guard armorings. You notice that you deal LESS damage than the full expertise player. http://i.imgur.com/JZCFwPK.png
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nrajf3hx6a...culations.xlsx

TLDR: A DPS should switch their expertise crystals for power crystals but keep all their PvP armorings.
You can increase your damage by adding up to 5 PvE armorings (after that it actually lowers it) but you will take a notable extra amount of damage compared to what you gain.

Highcommander's Avatar


Highcommander
02.03.2013 , 12:02 AM | #2
Did you account for:

Stim
Group buffs
Datacrons

Expertise on use Stim
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MrFrezzer's Avatar


MrFrezzer
02.03.2013 , 12:10 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Highcommander View Post
Did you account for:

Stim
Group buffs
Datacrons

Expertise on use Stim
Me and mega just did a live stream of us with same stats and besides the fact he had less expertise than me. He should of been able to hit me for the exact same amount but he did not. I was able to out dps him out of 100 flame bursts showing that expertise is still the better stat for pvp. Since if expertise didn't matter he should of hit me for the same exact amounts but he didn't.
Frezz

If we ever reach the point where every class thinks they are completely balanced and everything is great, I'll take the red pill and unplug from the matrix. - Greg Zoeller

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
02.03.2013 , 12:12 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by MrFrezzer View Post
Me and mega just did a live stream of us with same stats and besides the face he had 180 less expertise than me. I out dps him and we have a simple spread sheet of it. I am doing a more complex one like the OP. But guess what out of 100 flame burst expertise wins and had higher over all hits! Check out my live stream! I am with OP expertise is for the win! People stupid and I hope they have less since then I will get even bigger hits on them!
If you had the same stats but he had 180 less expertise then of course you outdamaged him...

Thanks OP. I will think on this.

edit: Nevermind I read the other thread. I thought you had the same stats except he had less expertise. I now realize that you had the same stats BEFORE he replaced expertise crystals with power crystals and PVP armorings with PVE armorings. That's definitely a horse of a different color.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

MoreMomentum's Avatar


MoreMomentum
02.11.2013 , 08:53 PM | #5
With a background in computer programming, theory-crafting was something I dove head first in. Unfortunately I found there will never be one sure fire answer on which way to go for every class/spec/etc...

So I changed my goal. I started to calculate how I can output the most damage in a match against someone with full expertise. What I found was: The goal was to increase Dmg Pri without ever sacrificing expertise to sub-1200. So instead of taking out mods and enhancements which were similar to the PvE counterpart, I switched out one hilt and one armoring which gave me the highest stat boost and I believe I had a net gain of 10 DPS. Small boost, but I'll squeeze as much as I can get. That's the point I suppose.

I'm going to mess around with yours and see if my theory-craft holds true. It's been a bit since I've messed with Expertise. I'll update with what I find.
KAOS - SOAK
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ShadowAxx's Avatar


ShadowAxx
02.11.2013 , 09:39 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by MoreMomentum View Post
... I switched out one hilt and one armoring which gave me the highest stat boost and I believe I had a net gain of 10 DPS.
That has been my play on my Sage. A make shift PvP light saber and focus built around a resolve hilt 27 and resolve armoring 27 with the rest of the slots loaded with (61)PvP mods, enhancements & WH crystal.

With everything else currently WH, I'm running 1264 EXP, 1990 WP (with rakata 112 resolve stim), 19759 HP, 104.6% accuracy, force bonus damage 894 and Crit 25.25% & 78% surge.

I have spare enhancements & mods to reload up to 38.65% crit at the expense of power. I wanna say my damage boost was just below 800 with this build. I'm running the stalker armor 4/4 set bonus of (1) extra tick of force potency. So far, getting off a complete rotation with 3 ticks of force potency has been a much better burst build than running higher crit.

I have procrastinated grinding out a WH light saber and focus, instead buying PvP gear items for slot stat optimization as well as for my Companion who is currently just under 1000 EXP and a real asset when visiting Tat to help clear Thorazan of Imp ganker 50s.

ktkenshinx's Avatar


ktkenshinx
02.12.2013 , 02:17 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by MelliMelon View Post
TLDR: A DPS should switch their expertise crystals for power crystals but keep all their PvP armorings.
For those that can't readily access the Excel...

1) What is your final Expertise value? What is the OPTIMAL Expertise value?
2) What are your final cunning/power/crit values? What, do you think, are the optimal values?

I love analyses like this, and am curious to see where it goes.
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islander's Avatar


islander
02.12.2013 , 09:28 AM | #8
its interesting for sure. Lately I've been using power crystals too, but in the end it doesn't make that huge a difference either way. Mathematically speaking, you get a better combination of damage and mitigation by going with expertise crystals...but damage alone? A very minor edge to the 1314 dual power crystals set up.

I've settled on 1355 myself on my sniper, keeping my black/purple power crystal. Because I like the look fo the bullets, and I did pay a million for it and all This halves the DPS improvement, but also halves the incoming damage mitigation lost.

I feel like in any case you're going to be fine - 1396, 1355, or 1314. So many other variables will matter much, much more then obsessing over this.
Gìllies Erimosi, Imperial Deadeye
<Hex> Prophecy of the Five

Xerain's Avatar


Xerain
02.12.2013 , 09:47 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
If you had the same stats but he had 180 less expertise then of course you outdamaged him...

Thanks OP. I will think on this.

edit: Nevermind I read the other thread. I thought you had the same stats except he had less expertise. I now realize that you had the same stats BEFORE he replaced expertise crystals with power crystals and PVP armorings with PVE armorings. That's definitely a horse of a different color.
So what in the edit you're saying you want them to have the same exact stats but one to have higher expertise than the other and see how they do against eachother? I'm not sure if simple math for you is hard here if this is what you mean...

Or do you want them to have the same stats before either puts in crystals and armorings?

Memo-'s Avatar


Memo-
02.12.2013 , 11:44 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by ShadowAxx View Post
With everything else currently WH, I'm running 1264 EXP, 1990 WP (with rakata 112 resolve stim), 19759 HP, 104.6% accuracy, force bonus damage 894 and Crit 25.25% & 78% surge.
Please tell me there's a typo there.
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