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The current state of pvp.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The current state of pvp.

biowareftw's Avatar


biowareftw
01.29.2013 , 03:27 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by FateIsInexorable View Post
Why not save yourself the trouble and do it now?
Because I actually bought this game unlike most of the people defending this crap. You see I like Bioware. EA? Well that explains some of the changes.

Instead of fixing a memory leak (that was present in beta) and balancing and fixing pvp in 2 easy steps? We have cartel market changes in every patch notes/

I also beta tested this game and saw pvp as much more balanced then it is now at RELEASE (which is a joke).

We saw other classes get nerfed before people even hit 50, based on sub 50's playing 50's in champion gear, and yet we can't get a hotfix on something the developer admitted was BROKEN in an interview?

The dev even knows it's broken. I guess I am supposed to come back here and call you all "whiners/crybabies" when the nerf hits right?

Some realms have even banned the use of smash/bubblestun in rateds (enforced by the players). That is how bad it has gotten.

The players are asking for a hotfix for something the dev has said is broken. That isn't crying. That is wanting to save myself months of garbage pvp, waiting for pve content which I could care less about, and cartel outfits which I could care less about.

Why don't you people call the developer a crybaby as well? You act as if this is a hard fix. It's not. SW/JK has two other viable trees/specs in pvp (one is slightly better). Not all AC's even have TWO viable trees. Take PT/Vanguard. They have ONE viable spec and people are calling for nerfs on that spec (probably the same people trying to defend something the devs have admitted is broken).

I am someone who tested these classes, and says one of my trees is stupidly OP. That isn't crying. That is the voice of reason...
Einstein's relativity work is a magnificent mathematical garb which fascinates, dazzles and makes people blind to the underlying errors. The theory is like a beggar clothed in purple whom ignorant people take for a king... its exponents are brilliant men but they are metaphysicists rather than scientists.- Nikola Tesla - New York Times (11 July 1935)

chrisronline's Avatar


chrisronline
01.29.2013 , 03:46 PM | #12
I actually agree with this. I don't think BW is properly prioritizing the work that needs to be done for this game, for me at least; however, I'm not aware of the market spread of users - it might be true that the majority of users do not participate in PvP that often so that department has less staff. Even if that's true, it shouldn't require much work to have a discussion about the state of PvP and what changes should be made, and then (here is the key part), communicate that change to the PvP community so we can decide if we want to stick around.

About this issue specifically, I do think that Smash/Force Sweep needs some tuning in that, as the OP said, hard switches and coordinated burst with these abilities are very difficult to counter and that makes classes with those abilities essential to winning RWZ groups and excluding any other melee class. It reminds me of WoW:BC when any class that couldn't CC/tank/heal never got invited to 5mans.
Pew Pew

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
01.29.2013 , 03:54 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by biowareftw View Post
Because I actually bought this game unlike most of the people defending this crap. You see I like Bioware. EA? Well that explains some of the changes.

Instead of fixing a memory leak (that was present in beta) and balancing and fixing pvp in 2 easy steps? We have cartel market changes in every patch notes/

I also beta tested this game and saw pvp as much more balanced then it is now at RELEASE (which is a joke).

We saw other classes get nerfed before people even hit 50, based on sub 50's playing 50's in champion gear, and yet we can't get a hotfix on something the developer admitted was BROKEN in an interview?

The dev even knows it's broken. I guess I am supposed to come back here and call you all "whiners/crybabies" when the nerf hits right?

Some realms have even banned the use of smash/bubblestun in rateds (enforced by the players). That is how bad it has gotten.

The players are asking for a hotfix for something the dev has said is broken. That isn't crying. That is wanting to save myself months of garbage pvp, waiting for pve content which I could care less about, and cartel outfits which I could care less about.

Why don't you people call the developer a crybaby as well? You act as if this is a hard fix. It's not. SW/JK has two other viable trees/specs in pvp (one is slightly better). Not all AC's even have TWO viable trees. Take PT/Vanguard. They have ONE viable spec and people are calling for nerfs on that spec (probably the same people trying to defend something the devs have admitted is broken).

I am someone who tested these classes, and says one of my trees is stupidly OP. That isn't crying. That is the voice of reason...
I agree with so much of this. Well stated!!!
All warfare is based on deception If his forces are united, separate them If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near A leader leads by example not by force
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Sathid's Avatar


Sathid
01.29.2013 , 04:07 PM | #14
The repeated nerfs to scoundrels and op's were obscene and i have never seen anything like it to date in an MMO,that class type was nerfed before people were geared and before a 50 lvl bracket,the class added a good dimension to the game.

Greeve's Avatar


Greeve
01.29.2013 , 05:24 PM | #15
Ops/Scoundrel nerfs...well lets see why they were nerfed in the first place. The damage they were doing back then (about a year ago at this point) is on par to what rage is doing right now and slightly better (single target rather than AOE). Rage hits like a wet noodle outside of smash, but these ops/scoundrels would have some combo that would literally kill you. I'd get hit in full plate for 7-9k on the last shot of that combo in full pvp gear...not scrub tier 1 gear, but FULL BM...add to that the fact that your life totals was way less and that was maybe 3/4 of your life and you can see why they nerfed Ops/Scoundresl...now you might say why is rage ok and not nerfed then? Honestly I don't know but I will point out that generally against anyone who is even remotely geared you will be lucky to break a 7k smash, they are generally high 4k-mid 6k depending on all the debuffs/taunts on you and your opponents gear...you only really get these obscene numbers reliably against fresh 50s. Add all the pvp gear progression they added and its not as bad as everyone makes it.

Overall, the OP complaining because before smash buffs, maraders was a "high skill cap" class and he was proud that he did well with it. Now that they made the class more accessible to put up decent numbers he doesnt feel as special anymore. Which is retarded. Good players will always outshine bad. Spec or class doesnt make you special, your skill does.

biowareftw's Avatar


biowareftw
01.29.2013 , 05:51 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Greeve View Post
Ops/Scoundrel nerfs...well lets see why they were nerfed in the first place. The damage they were doing back then (about a year ago at this point) is on par to what rage is doing right now and slightly better (single target rather than AOE). Rage hits like a wet noodle outside of smash, but these ops/scoundrels would have some combo that would literally kill you. I'd get hit in full plate for 7-9k on the last shot of that combo in full pvp gear...not scrub tier 1 gear, but FULL BM...add to that the fact that your life totals was way less and that was maybe 3/4 of your life and you can see why they nerfed Ops/Scoundresl...now you might say why is rage ok and not nerfed then? Honestly I don't know but I will point out that generally against anyone who is even remotely geared you will be lucky to break a 7k smash, they are generally high 4k-mid 6k depending on all the debuffs/taunts on you and your opponents gear...you only really get these obscene numbers reliably against fresh 50s. Add all the pvp gear progression they added and its not as bad as everyone makes it.

Overall, the OP complaining because before smash buffs, maraders was a "high skill cap" class and he was proud that he did well with it. Now that they made the class more accessible to put up decent numbers he doesnt feel as special anymore. Which is retarded. Good players will always outshine bad. Spec or class doesnt make you special, your skill does.
Wrong. You seem to think marauder/sent was the first class I leveled, or that it is the only class I played, or that I don't enjoy playing carnage as well as annihilation.

I played a scoundrel/op as well. Liu-kang on the fatman server. I absolutely wrecked kids on my scoundrel. The most "broken" part of the class was adrenal/biochem/warzone stacking. Any burst class could so the same, it is just that most good sub rogues from WoW gravitated to the "sub rogue class", and actually started min/maxing long before everyone else, and at that point people had no idea that sniper's weren't that bad, or that PT pyro could single target burst your face off.

Am I saying that it didn't need a nerf? Not at all. I could solo cap against 4 people. They gave the class more control and toned down the burst. That was fine. Where scoundrels/ops got completely screwed, was when bubble stun was added. A class that relies on control/stunlocking being auto stunned on their opener? Defeats the whole purpose of a "rogue class", which is WHY team bubble stun was such an awful change. OP/scoundrel viability would go up 10 fold if bubblestun was removed, as would dps sins.

ATM it is hyrbid sins/smash/bubblesorc/other healer (usually scoundrel/op) and a carnage/combat marauder to run them around at 80 percent speed. No other classes really need apply. You can get by with other comps, but you are just outplaying the people who go the easy route. Just because you can succeed with an inferior comp, doesn't mean that another comp is not imbalanced. Hell I got a stupidly high arena ranking in WoW with a Elemental Shaman/Ret Pally at one point. We were the only people even playing the comp (2's mattered in that expansion). It was garbage. It was my friend though and I wanted to get him ranking weapons.

What we have here in SWTOR was a bad move in buffing the rage tree (when both SW trees were perfectly viable). and then trying to fix that by adding more CC to a game that has plenty of cc already. Both are wrong, both shouldn't be in the game. It is asinine that a target switch after "setting up singularity" (which is easy), hits harder then a stealth opener. What makes it even stupider is that it is an aoe. It also requires no positional requirement (being behind the target).

This is the easiest fix in the world...revert the changes. This isn't asking for a new game engine or anything. It is obvious that darn near the entire player base wants this fixed pronto. The only people that want to keep it, either A) have never played a melee, and don't realize just how stupid bubble stun is, or B) play the melee spec that bubble stun was supposed to help slow down.

There is nothing for Bioware/EA to lose from fixing this, and they risk alienating the hardcores who have stayed with them if they don't. The PVE Crowd? They could care less as long as the abilities work in a raid, and...noone raids as focus/rage anyways in any guild who has decent progression.
Einstein's relativity work is a magnificent mathematical garb which fascinates, dazzles and makes people blind to the underlying errors. The theory is like a beggar clothed in purple whom ignorant people take for a king... its exponents are brilliant men but they are metaphysicists rather than scientists.- Nikola Tesla - New York Times (11 July 1935)

xxIncubixx's Avatar


xxIncubixx
01.29.2013 , 06:09 PM | #17
^ this

Jorojus's Avatar


Jorojus
01.29.2013 , 06:11 PM | #18
Finally I see a guy starting a topic on these forums who has a clue.

/signed and subscribed.


plz spread the word to sign this topic if you agree.
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Enexemander's Avatar


Enexemander
01.29.2013 , 06:33 PM | #19
What you have to (sadly) realize is that Bioware Austin is not Bioware anymore.

The management has left and what's left is the Mythic team. They are responsible for cratering Warhammer with terrible pvp imbalances.

So really, there's not much surprise that things are how they are. Why did Ops get nerfed right off but rage spec is allowed to reign? Simple. Bioware was still Bioware then. Now it's Mythic.

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
01.29.2013 , 06:36 PM | #20
The current philosophy of the developers can be summed up with one small buff.

Problem: thousands of people complain that there is far too much CC in this game.

Solution: Make resolve fill slower and give a class an AOE stun that can be cast on every player.

GG BW.