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NiM EC Tanks DPS Requirement?


TylerTrojan's Avatar


TylerTrojan
01.28.2013 , 02:47 PM | #1
So, my guild just starting working on NiM EC Firebrand/Stormcaller (8-man), and I was wondering what the DPS requirements are to avoid the second DD, which seems pretty important.

We quickly realized that we couldn't make this DPS check, and started trying some sort of strategy where we had 3 people DPSing Firebrand to push the phases faster, then we will switch and focus Stormcaller later on with more DPS to share DD with on the Stormcaller tank, but will we run into hard enrage issues if we need to use this strategy?

Also, are there any good ideas of required DPS numbers on the fight to clear it? I want to know about how much we need to step it up as a raid, whether it is through more fully optomizing our DG gear, working on maximizing DPS uptime, rotation work, etc.

Any advice is appreciated!

Chaqen's Avatar


Chaqen
01.28.2013 , 03:02 PM | #2
We usually try to keep 2 dps on each of the tanks, but our strongest dps is usually on storm caller (which usually are melee dps), then we have 2 range on firebrand. At the start of the fight we will have one range dps stormcaller a bit, how long sorta depends who we have on stormcaller that night. For rest of the phases, the dps stick their respective tanks unless it is obvious that stormcaller isnt being burned fast enough.

After the last shield, and the melee dps get DD, they jump over to firebrand, while one of the range dps go to stormcaller and eat the 2nd DD with the healer.... Firebrand is usually a bit higher then stormcaller but usually balances out when there are 3 dps on it at the end.

For actual numbers when i am on my marauder i am averaging over 2k on the tank, and when there is another marauder on there we dont need any assistance from a 3rd dps at all... we actually push to the shield phase shortly after the first DD... so i would have to speculate that you only need about 3.2-3.5k dps on stormcaller to prevent the second DD. Overall the dps checks are not to tight once you get use to the fight and develop a good strategy.

As a side note i been told (havent tested it myself), that a dps that has cast times (Merc, lightening Sorc) may experience a dps drop by eating the DD due to the push back from the damage ticks.
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wetslampigduex's Avatar


wetslampigduex
01.28.2013 , 03:10 PM | #3
I think i remember reading somewhere in a post that 16m is 1700ish dps... I'd assume 8 man is abour 1450-1500... i think HM its 1150... these are numbers from a pot head so take them with a grain of salt

Mavery's Avatar


Mavery
01.28.2013 , 03:12 PM | #4
Here is some math that will give you an idea of the required DPS.

In 8-player mode, the tanks combine for 2066834 HP. The enrage timer is 390 seconds. Now there is a total of 100 seconds (4x 25 second shield phases) where you aren't damaging the tanks. So the 'effective' enrage is 290 seconds. If we assume that tanks will average out to 800 combined DPS then the average DPS per DPSer is 1581. Your melee classes should be doing much higher than this, and so this brings down the requirement for the ranged.

FWIW, melee shouldn't be doing less than 1700 in this fight, and if your range are sitting in the 1450 range, you should be in a good spot.

Chaqen's Avatar


Chaqen
01.28.2013 , 03:22 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Mavery View Post
FWIW, melee shouldn't be doing less than 1700 in this fight, and if your range are sitting in the 1450 range, you should be in a good spot.
You have to take into account that the adds under the shield are weaker then ****, on my marauder i usually stand under the shield for about 8 seconds doing nothing for we dont blow up the bomber on us.
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Mavery's Avatar


Mavery
01.28.2013 , 03:25 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaqen View Post
You have to take into account that the adds under the shield are weaker then ****, on my marauder i usually stand under the shield for about 8 seconds doing nothing for we dont blow up the bomber on us.
I take that into account.

Melee still shouldn't be under 1700.

dscount's Avatar


dscount
01.28.2013 , 03:34 PM | #7
This is for HM, but works for NIM as well. We have been hitting Stormcaller with two ranged from Firebrand and two melee on Stormcaller. Taking Stormcaller down to the <20% last shield. Then swapping places. Ranged taking DD on Storm while everyone burns down Firebrand. Works great, but if you have "Too much" DPS you have so overlapping issues. We had to shift one ranged back to Firebrand at the 50% mark to prevent some strange mechanix from happening. Had a similar issue with bombadiers not showing up if you burn the Transdoshians too fast in HM Kephess fight (resolution was dragging final group to front of walker to AOE down) - Pull Bomber to middle of area. Strange to see a penalty if you burn things too fast.. LOL
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AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
01.28.2013 , 03:43 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by wetslampigduex View Post
I think i remember reading somewhere in a post that 16m is 1700ish dps... I'd assume 8 man is abour 1450-1500... i think HM its 1150... these are numbers from a pot head so take them with a grain of salt
Your 8 man numbers are off. 8 man may be easier but it's not that much lower dps requirements.
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Morngwath's Avatar


Morngwath
01.29.2013 , 09:07 AM | #9
1500 dps average on 8-man is pretty much correct. We beat the enrage timer with 2 maras and 2 ranged totaling about 7300+ dps. so that's about 1500 dps for the 4 damage classes each and another combined 1300 dps from the tanks.
We're using the old 3 - 1 tactic and burn stormcaller first.
Morngwath (DD-Hexer) - Rhona (Heal-Sabo) - Olathira (DD-Söldner)

Lostpenguins's Avatar


Lostpenguins
01.29.2013 , 10:02 AM | #10
This one is a bit tricky. We have a marauder on Storm Caller who pops bloodthirst right at the beginning. The two dps on SC toggle using their Relics/Adrenals. Sometimes we have one of the ranged throw out a dot or two or a little dps to help push SC to the 20% markers to make sure there isn't 2 double D's.

Now, the trick with this at that in the 0%-20% remaining health of SC, FB is usually around 30-40%. We end up swapping toons to absorb the double d at this point as we even out FB then burn then down together. So, what we do is we have the 2 dps on SC eat the first DD, then, right afterwards, one of the dps comes over to SC and switches places with one of the dps who already has the DD. Now the new dps and the SC healer eat it. Then switch back.

Usually one full switch is good enough and the tanks die.