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BW, What do you consider acceptable damage, see pic inside

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
BW, What do you consider acceptable damage, see pic inside

jizerai's Avatar


jizerai
01.25.2013 , 02:12 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Raansu View Post
It's not uncommon for a rage spec player stacking power to hit 3-5k force screams.... I've jumped someone on my juggernaut before and did a 7k smash, 5k scream and a 6k vicious throw.
Yeah, I love how people are saying that they "do really low damage on their other abilities" when they hit like trucks because of stacked Power.
Quote: Originally Posted by battlebug View Post
can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out.

PoliteAssasin's Avatar


PoliteAssasin
01.26.2013 , 01:28 AM | #22
Also the 3k vicious slashes, those are nice as well. The damage is acceptable because rage is very squishy. Gotta make up for it somehow.
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Roastmouse's Avatar


Roastmouse
01.26.2013 , 04:04 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Khrell View Post
I'm just curious what you would consider acceptable damage.
OVER 9000.

Nah but seriously. Given your stats, right on average. My toon could whack you for over 7.

Quote: Originally Posted by Khrell View Post
but is it ok to drop 1/3 of your hit points off in one attack followed up with a guaranteed force scream that hits for 3-5k and a finishing move for another 5k.
Why don't you counter by popping hydraulic overrides to kite him, tag him with a thermal detonator while you have distance, jet boost back in and finish him off with an auto crit 90% armor pen free railshot?

But srsly again. A full power stacked rage mara has about a 21% chance to crit you with his force scream and a 36% chance to crit with his vicious throw. So the chance of a 6k smash + 4k scream + 5k execute is about 7.2% not taking into account all other factors. It's kind of like when you get lucky and get a 5k railshot + 5k thermal det + 2k flameburst + 5k railshot.

NanoX's Avatar


NanoX
01.26.2013 , 05:36 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Khrell View Post
I'm just curious what you would consider acceptable damage. Here I am at 1287 expertise and got force sweeped for 6153 damage. Granted I'm missing 1500 hps cause i'm not rebuffed and usually sit around close to 18k, but is it ok to drop 1/3 of your hit points off in one attack followed up with a guaranteed force scream that hits for 3-5k and a finishing move for another 5k.

With 3 possible hits I can go from full to dang near dead in a matter of seconds with high expertise. It doesn't matter if I'm at 1350 or 1200 the smash/sweep damage is just too much. Here's a pic of me getting hit by a force sweep that finished me off

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/d...ps345b34a6.jpg
just to explain you how it works:

(all smashes from a guardian/jugger on full war hero enemies without defensive CD)
sorc = 7k+
operative = 6k+
merc/powertech dps/pyro = 6k+
marauder focus= 6k+
tanks = 5k+

now u can add 15% from powerup + 15% from inspiration to calculate the max hit

now u should feel lucky that u didnt get smashed for 7k+

JenseitsvonBose's Avatar


JenseitsvonBose
01.26.2013 , 06:50 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by NanoX View Post
just to explain you how it works:

(all smashes from a guardian/jugger on full war hero enemies without defensive CD)
sorc = 7k+
operative = 6k+
merc/powertech dps/pyro = 6k+
marauder focus= 6k+
tanks = 5k+

now u can add 15% from powerup + 15% from inspiration to calculate the max hit

now u should feel lucky that u didnt get smashed for 7k+
Not me. My scoundrel healer regularly gets hit for almost 6k -- ~5890 seems to be the magic number -- but I've never seen a >= 6k number actually show up, to speak nothing of 7k. I get focused fairly heavily, so I don't think that it's simply a matter of me being lucky and taking only the weaker smashes. That's against a fully optimized EWH-geared smash mara. My toon is full EWH, though lately I've been running Hazmat rather than WH implants in my warzones. YMMV.
Jenseitsvonbose | Gunsmoke | Mcroyal
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xxIncubixx's Avatar


xxIncubixx
01.26.2013 , 07:25 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliteAssasin View Post
Also the 3k vicious slashes, those are nice as well. The damage is acceptable because rage is very squishy. Gotta make up for it somehow.
squishy?! maybe as a jug but not as a marauder u still have the lol cloak of pain and rofl undying rage.

and yes i have seen smash monkeys crit me for 5 to 6k with smash followed by a 3 to 4k force scream.

Campaigner's Avatar


Campaigner
01.26.2013 , 07:38 AM | #27
With the force crit bonus box Rage Juggs have, even force push crits for 3k.
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criminalheretic's Avatar


criminalheretic
01.26.2013 , 01:34 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghost_Spectre View Post
Therein lays the problem. By allowing this to happen it skews their matrixes and renders any balance completely out of line. Min/Maxing should not be allowed. Armor, Mods, and Enhancements for each AC should be locked to that type. Example, a Force Master component will only work in the gear it came with or with all the components as a whole. They have the ability to lock the armor to each piece; they can do the same for all of it. Conversely, any time that you mix match these pieces in PvE gear, you lose the bonuses. Likewise, PvE components should not be allowed to work with any PvP components.

They designed these components for a reason, balance. All these components should be restricted to working together to obtain the bonuses, not just the armor. And now that EWH belts and bracers are modable, those can be included in this too. Players taking it upon themselves to exploit the numbers by min/maxing their gear should be penalized for doing so. Then I bet you’ll see the numbers coming more inline and help restore the balance between the classes better.
Yeah um no... The stock EWH Weaponmaster set would give me 519 crit. That's just silly. They don't make the gear the way they do because they consider that optimized, they purposely make it un-optimized to drag the grind out a little longer. I agree that when a particular spec can completely ignore crit, something is broken. But being forced to wear their horribly un-optimized gear as-is, is not the answer.
What we don't understand, we can make mean anything.
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Ghost_Spectre's Avatar


Ghost_Spectre
01.26.2013 , 06:32 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by criminalheretic View Post
Yeah um no... The stock EWH Weaponmaster set would give me 519 crit. That's just silly. They don't make the gear the way they do because they consider that optimized, they purposely make it un-optimized to drag the grind out a little longer. I agree that when a particular spec can completely ignore crit, something is broken. But being forced to wear their horribly un-optimized gear as-is, is not the answer.
It is the answer because everyone is given one to wear. Developers don't design game mechanics and gear without a purpose behind it. The totality of it is balance. This balance is translated via gear each AC wears. When everyone wears the stock gear they will have the same stats as required for the chosen ACs. Tank gear for tanks, DPS gear for DPS and so on. This means their stats for PvP will be equal. Then it comes down to the player's skill and experience.

In the case of those LOLsmashers, they are exploiting the system by overloading their gear with power and surge while neglecting critical all because one ability auto-crits. Because they have overloaded on the two secondary stats, they have artificially increased the damage that was never intended to be. This is an exploit pure and simple, one that BW needs to address immediately. Therefore, they need to remove the ability to min/max armor in such a manner that anyone who does will suffer because of the loss of expertise and bonuses.

Some people believe that by reducing their expertise in favor of boosting main and secondary stats helps them by increasing their damage output. While that may be true to an extent, it does not help them with dealing with someone who has maxed expertise. Case in point, with wearing all augmented WH gear, EWH belt and bracers, and EWH artifacts, my Expertise is 1396, the maximum amount achievable. Comparing my stats to a guild mate’s Assassin, he discovered that I was able to mitigate more damage and cause more damage than his toon based on expertise alone.

My damage boost for PvP is 25.30% and damage reduction 20.19%. His expertise is 1050 with a damage boost 20% and damage reduction of 17%. Therefore, using BW own formula, my damage baseline damage ability in PvP is 8.30% without any of my mods from my tree. My damage reduction negates his damage boost before my damage reduction abilities from my spec. This is baseline, so when you add the boosts to the equation, my damage will be at least 8% higher or more and my damage reduction will eat into his damage ability because his damage boost is negated by my baseline. This is why I can stand up to any AC in a WZ one on one.

Today I was hit by a LOLsmasher Sentinel; his best sweep hit me for 4.3k after his build up. My Static Barrier absorbed that hit and went off. I opened range on him after hitting him with Affliction and Crushing Darkness and kitted him with FL, Shock, CL, and LS all before he was able to close range on me. When he leaped to me again, my Static Barrier was up again. I was able to force him off of me and run somewhere else because he could not kill me. This was one on one. I dare say had it be 2 on 1, I may have taken down one before going, but not both. I attribute this to my skill and my maxed level of expertise. I am sure had he not been in min/max gear, it would’ve been a different story.

It is a fallacy to believe that by lowering your expertise down to 950, 1050, 1100, or 1200 will give you the boost you need. What it does is give those who have the maximum level of expertise the ability to survive and do more baseline damage.

Min/Maxing gear bypassing design specifications the developers put into this game is an exploit, period. Therefore, it should be stopped. You do this by making all the armor, mods, and enhancements work in tandem to maintain the set bonuses. Furthermore, specific gear like War Lord, Vengeance, Mystic, Survivor, and so on, should be tied into the stance these players have active. If you’re wearing Vengeance armoring, mods, and enhancements in a War Lord armoring, they should not work because they are not in the original armor they came from and the stance active. The fact that the gear can be installed in orange modable gear isn’t a problem either. Because it is specifically assigned to an armor section and a specific stance and/or spec, min/maxing will negate the bonuses and frankly, cause a person to lose 50% of their total expertise, not just a little here or there.

There are a number of things they can do to stop the exploitation going on by players that do not except the design specification put out by the developers. It comes down to cheating the system because you can. That is wrong and it needs to be addressed immediately. You and other may not want to hear this, but the truth of the matter is you are exploiting this to gain an advantage where the developers never intended to be. Simply put, you are cheating the game with this exloit because you can. That, in my book, is inexcusable and wrong.

goddgundam's Avatar


goddgundam
01.26.2013 , 06:40 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Roastmouse View Post
OVER 9000.

Nah but seriously. Given your stats, right on average. My toon could whack you for over 7.



Why don't you counter by popping hydraulic overrides to kite him, tag him with a thermal detonator while you have distance, jet boost back in and finish him off with an auto crit 90% armor pen free railshot?

But srsly again. A full power stacked rage mara has about a 21% chance to crit you with his force scream and a 36% chance to crit with his vicious throw. So the chance of a 6k smash + 4k scream + 5k execute is about 7.2% not taking into account all other factors. It's kind of like when you get lucky and get a 5k railshot + 5k thermal det + 2k flameburst + 5k railshot.
I see some stacked adrenals and other cds there and the sorc has no cds up not saying it was but alot of these big numbers are padded..