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Why no TfB and EC SM in group finder?


Screaming_Ziva's Avatar


Screaming_Ziva
01.29.2013 , 06:59 AM | #41
I don't see how SM EC can really be any easier than it already is. We were missing a couple people from our regular raid group last night so we decided to just knock out the EC weekly on alts. We cleared up to Zorn and Toth and we were still waiting on our second tank so we figured we'd try Zorn and Toth with 1 tank. A healer died early in the fight and we rezzed him and we lost a DPS about half way through but we were able to get Zorn and Toth down with basically 1 tank and 3 DPS. We were still waiting on our second tank when we got to Firebrand and Stormcaller so we decided to give them a go with only one tank. We had no deaths and Firebrand and Stormcaller went down.

Ghostius's Avatar


Ghostius
01.30.2013 , 02:45 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Screaming_Ziva View Post
I don't see how SM EC can really be any easier than it already is. We were missing a couple people from our regular raid group last night so we decided to just knock out the EC weekly on alts. We cleared up to Zorn and Toth and we were still waiting on our second tank so we figured we'd try Zorn and Toth with 1 tank. A healer died early in the fight and we rezzed him and we lost a DPS about half way through but we were able to get Zorn and Toth down with basically 1 tank and 3 DPS. We were still waiting on our second tank when we got to Firebrand and Stormcaller so we decided to give them a go with only one tank. We had no deaths and Firebrand and Stormcaller went down.
Nice story and showoff, but it has nothing to do with GF and what we talk about here. For guilds with ppl who have it on farm ofc its easy, everything is easy if you repeat it enough. Why you doing it anyway if it is so easy??

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
01.30.2013 , 03:41 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by mikebevo View Post
SM is more than just about letting people see content; they are also use to give new raiders a chance to see the instance and get a understanding of the basic mechanics. It is also a way for raid leaders to test new players and see if they have the skills and abilities to proceed to the next level. So nerfing SM EC further or nerfing TfB will hinder raid leaders from making viable progress groups as people come and go from the game.

If anything I would be for changing SM EC back to before the nerf, and make another mode below SM call Pug mode. I wouldn’t touch a Pug group in SM TfB or SM EC, I only touch a Pug in SM EV or KP about once a month when they are begging general chat for a healer. I forget how bad it is and go, but quickly remember it is a mistake. I have been in groups 5 manning HM EV and that is easier than 8 manning SM EV with a PUG.
Did I set up a 2nd account and then post? Either you're my clone or I really need to lay off the sauce.

But yes, I've 4 manned HM EV and 6 manned NiM KP with less difficulty than a couple of the SM EV/KP pugs I've been in. Can you imagine Zorn and Toth? I can see a pug tank letting those two stack all the way to enrage. Firebrand and Stormcaller? That fight had the shields nerfed without lfg being involved because people had that much trouble. Kephess? Why would I want to pug him with Recruit geared 50s?

Let's face it, the majority of people you get teamed up with via the GF are well... lacking in experience and knowledge in regards to fight mechanics. I'm okay with the GF but they need to set a requirement like "has Aratech Ice" or "the Unyielding" or "the Infernal" before putting SM EC and TFB in the GF.

For the record I'm not complaining about their gear (by all means, don't bother with a gear check - skill is far more important) but we need a way to keep people who haven't demonstrated basic ability out of SM TFB pugs because the other option is to nerf the heck out of it, and then screw people working on HM TFB out of a practice ground.
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Ghostius's Avatar


Ghostius
01.30.2013 , 04:33 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
because the other option is to nerf the heck out of it, and then screw people working on HM TFB out of a practice ground.
It is called story mode for a reason - see the story obviously. It is not called or meant to be PM (Practice Mode) for raid guilds training ground.
SWTOR is all about the story, more than any other game I played. It is also annoying when ppl in leveling FPs keep saying "skip, press space" etc. denying new ppl right to see the story if they are there for 1st time (I can understand that in HM FPs, ppl should see the story why leveling).
Same thing in ops - you actually want to deny to some ppl the right to see the story in ops only for selfish reason to be your training ground. So, again, you want all 3 difficuly modes for yourself for sole reason you have time and will for being in raid guild. Yes, giving up on 1 dificulty level is hard, right? :rolleyes

BogyOne's Avatar


BogyOne
01.30.2013 , 04:43 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Darslk View Post
I feel like they should add EC and TFB SM in group finder as a tier two, and only accessible after you've done both KP and EV SM. Theoretically, forcing people to do the other two first would make them pick up some sort of skill/understanding of how operations work.

Obviously this would still require some judgement, but I feel like it'd be better than the current system. Even if they just added EC this way.
And that sorts it out the same way as it does for LI HM at the moment. I would only put EC SM and Tier 2.a and TFB SM ans 2.b, so player could queue for GF even if he feels not ready for TFB.

Technical solution for gear evaluation would not guarantee that game distinguishes between e.g. full Dread Guard geared and full GTN 63's geared so there is no need to worry about it at all, will make little difference.

Argument that GF PUGs have problems with EV/KP is also void - same as with LI HM, if you are not ready you risk getting hammered and will just waste your time there. People who get hammered in EV/KP will get hammered in EC/TFB, who won't - they'll succeed either in short time span.

In my feeling, after initial period of curiosity where everyone would like to see it, the Tier 2 GF Ops would be more succesful and viable that Tier 1 randoms - evolution and learning curve at work. In addition, there is a chance to attract veterans and overgeared people too, e.g. ones sick of KP/EV but not having done EC/TFB SM in long time just for the fun of it.

Besides, so many groups first form then queue to GF SM Ops that worrying about these poor pugs is overrated. All these arguments given: poor GF ops would have to carry undergeared or green players, poor GF ops would get problems with fresh players not knowing tactics...

When did everyone turn so altruistic and caring for well being of mystical people we do not play with? Just ask yourself "what I would do if I get undergeared / green player - am I able to push through some DPS or explain the tactics if need be?". Think about yourself and then queue or not queue. Sorted.

Rgs, Bogy

Never_Hesitate's Avatar


Never_Hesitate
01.30.2013 , 06:28 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghostius View Post
It is called story mode for a reason - see the story obviously. It is not called or meant to be PM (Practice Mode) for raid guilds training ground.
SWTOR is all about the story, more than any other game I played. It is also annoying when ppl in leveling FPs keep saying "skip, press space" etc. denying new ppl right to see the story if they are there for 1st time (I can understand that in HM FPs, ppl should see the story why leveling).
Same thing in ops - you actually want to deny to some ppl the right to see the story in ops only for selfish reason to be your training ground. So, again, you want all 3 difficuly modes for yourself for sole reason you have time and will for being in raid guild. Yes, giving up on 1 dificulty level is hard, right? :rolleyes
It isn't hard to give up on one difficulty level, but to nerf the lowest difficulty (sm) even more is just ridiculous.
The people, who can't control their character enough to not fall of of the platforms in ev are not ready for the elder game (I'm not talking about making a mistake once or not knowing the ops, I'm talking about failing again and again)
In a grp finder pug we 6 manned soa, because on dps dced and we couldn't find a replacement in 5 minutes (shoking right?) and I switched to dps gear (I was the 2nd tank) and dps specc for the fight, after the first platform the other tank dced.
He went enrage on 5% because I was pulled into a mind trap and none of the dps knew how to pull him under the pylon, so we lost one.
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jeniyagyu's Avatar


jeniyagyu
01.30.2013 , 06:35 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghostius View Post
It is called story mode for a reason - see the story obviously. It is not called or meant to be PM (Practice Mode) for raid guilds training ground.
SWTOR is all about the story, more than any other game I played. It is also annoying when ppl in leveling FPs keep saying "skip, press space" etc. denying new ppl right to see the story if they are there for 1st time (I can understand that in HM FPs, ppl should see the story why leveling).
Same thing in ops - you actually want to deny to some ppl the right to see the story in ops only for selfish reason to be your training ground. So, again, you want all 3 difficuly modes for yourself for sole reason you have time and will for being in raid guild. Yes, giving up on 1 dificulty level is hard, right? :rolleyes
I don't see the difference between waiting on GF to pop (90% of the time people form FULL groups outside of it) and calling out in fleet that you wish to do EC SM. (Unless your a dps, cuz they usually need tanks/healers, but anyway.)

I mean, you are sitting there waiting for a pop anyway right? If you can sit there for 2-3 hours at one time or even devote THAT much time to waiting/then sometimes doing the op, what is the problem with finding a guild that FITS YOUR SCHEDULE?! (I can even give you a list of guilds THAT WILL WORK with your schedule so YOU DON'T have to worry about it.)

Honestly? What do you have against being in a guild at all? You could get into a casually one that doesn't even raid and you could probably still find a guild group for EC SM. I don't know what it is that scares you away from any kind of guild, but like I've said before: This isn't WoW, we aren't hardcore babies, give people a try before you bash all of us for wanting to do hardcore raids. It isn't our fault that you wore yourself out by doing super hardcore stuff. (My husband did the same thing as you and I yell at him every time he brings it up).

Ghostius's Avatar


Ghostius
01.30.2013 , 09:33 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by jeniyagyu View Post
I don't see the difference between waiting on GF to pop (90% of the time people form FULL groups outside of it) and calling out in fleet that you wish to do EC SM. (Unless your a dps, cuz they usually need tanks/healers, but anyway.)

I mean, you are sitting there waiting for a pop anyway right? If you can sit there for 2-3 hours at one time or even devote THAT much time to waiting/then sometimes doing the op, what is the problem with finding a guild that FITS YOUR SCHEDULE?! (I can even give you a list of guilds THAT WILL WORK with your schedule so YOU DON'T have to worry about it.)

Honestly? What do you have against being in a guild at all? You could get into a casually one that doesn't even raid and you could probably still find a guild group for EC SM. I don't know what it is that scares you away from any kind of guild, but like I've said before: This isn't WoW, we aren't hardcore babies, give people a try before you bash all of us for wanting to do hardcore raids. It isn't our fault that you wore yourself out by doing super hardcore stuff. (My husband did the same thing as you and I yell at him every time he brings it up).
Been there, done that - dont want to fall in that trap again. I dont have a working schedule, working in shifts that change often, even daily. And if I cant comit to guild schedule, it is better for the guild NOT HAVING me at all. Dont you see - I just want to be fair to any guild. Thats why in my 5-year wow experience, I changed only 3 guilds, one of them being my 1st socialguild. Not many ppl can say the same.

Cant you just forget about guilds and talk about group finder? For ppl like me, group finder is a blessing from heavens. When BW introduced GF for FPs and EV/KP SMs, I began to like SWTOR 2000% more then before.
I still remember how much ppl begged BW to make GF asap, meaning ppl want it and it is popular.
Look at WoW, their group finder for ALL RAIDS is more than popular. Why would it be different in SWTOR?

Never_Hesitate's Avatar


Never_Hesitate
01.30.2013 , 09:40 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghostius View Post
Been there, done that - dont want to fall in that trap again. I dont have a working schedule, working in shifts that change often, even daily. And if I cant comit to guild schedule, it is better for the guild NOT HAVING me at all. Dont you see - I just want to be fair to any guild. Thats why in my 5-year wow experience, I changed only 3 guilds, one of them being my 1st socialguild. Not many ppl can say the same.

Cant you just forget about guilds and talk about group finder? For ppl like me, group finder is a blessing from heavens. When BW introduced GF for FPs and EV/KP SMs, I began to like SWTOR 2000% more then before.
I still remember how much ppl begged BW to make GF asap, meaning ppl want it and it is popular.
Look at WoW, their group finder for ALL RAIDS is more than popular. Why would it be different in SWTOR?
If you want to compare SWTOR to WoW so much, can we tanks get a bag for everything we do via grp finder?
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T'hana Jugg, Saleona Sniper, S'inthoras Mara,Hannahla Merc, Eleondra&Eleondraa Ops,
Leeonira Sorc, Caphalør Sorc, Kindarya Assa, Leonië PT,
Revuna Mando, Leojuna Scoundrel, Simon'e Shadow, Sileona Guardian

Infalliable's Avatar


Infalliable
01.30.2013 , 09:44 AM | #50
When EC first came out, it was hard even on story mode. It was way too much to pug when it first came out.

Since then, it has been nerfed repeatedly (weakening of toth/zorn proximaty buffs, weaker boss damage outputs, AOEs no longer effecting the shield gens, double destruction weakening, longer enrages, etc.) and people have easier access to better gear (i.e., better than Rakata).

It's currently quite easy and there is little reason it can't be added to the GF. At least as a teir 2 operation.

Tfb, while not very hard does require more coordination and could prove to be difficult for a pug. It is probably too early to add it IMO, but the time is coming shortly.