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Defensive Cooldown for Sorcerer/Sage

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Defensive Cooldown for Sorcerer/Sage

-IceHawk-'s Avatar


-IceHawk-
01.26.2013 , 10:06 AM | #281
Quote: Originally Posted by Jarfunkz View Post
Or maybe they can have one they can spec into that insta-casts, and when 2000ish damage is is given to it, will stun everyone in five meters with very little resolve? Then, we can give them an option to be able to put it on themselves every 15 seconds as well as other players.
As you clearly have not been paying attention; the vast majority of the Sorc population understands that the Backlash ability is not balanced. In fact most of this community is open to its removal/re-design so long as Bioware manages to provide us with compensation.

@MusicRider
I would actually give Snipers/GS some credit for mobility. (0.25 to 0.50)
While the hardest hitting abilities do require cover there are a number of mobile DPS abilities that work as fillers and CC that can be deployed while on the move. While it is not impressive mobility it is enough to hit someone with shiv, CC the target, continue damage, and reposition effectively.

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
01.26.2013 , 12:14 PM | #282
MusicRider

good job, but i think it's time to go into individual specs. Generalizing entire classes will not work. Because the mobility, utility, survivability, survivability can differ quite a lot between specs. And this is not only for tank vs dps specs, this can be totally different even between dps specs: compare Engineering with Lethality, the first one is leaps and bounds ahead in terms of survivability.

I can help you rate most of the specs from these classes: Sniper, Operative, Sorcerer, Powertech.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
01.26.2013 , 12:48 PM | #283
Quote: Originally Posted by -IceHawk- View Post
@MusicRider
I would actually give Snipers/GS some credit for mobility. (0.25 to 0.50)
While the hardest hitting abilities do require cover there are a number of mobile DPS abilities that work as fillers and CC that can be deployed while on the move. While it is not impressive mobility it is enough to hit someone with shiv, CC the target, continue damage, and reposition effectively.
Thanks. Updated but only 0.25. The abilities are fairly weak and energy exhausting as far as I recall from my sniper.

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
01.26.2013 , 12:58 PM | #284
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
MusicRider

good job, but i think it's time to go into individual specs. Generalizing entire classes will not work. Because the mobility, utility, survivability, survivability can differ quite a lot between specs. And this is not only for tank vs dps specs, this can be totally different even between dps specs: compare Engineering with Lethality, the first one is leaps and bounds ahead in terms of survivability.

I can help you rate most of the specs from these classes: Sniper, Operative, Sorcerer, Powertech.
Thanks Express. I agree that a more detailed table would saw differences between different specs, but a) it will need more people for time and skills, b) we have to think before that whether it is worth doing this comparison. In the table I produced I am trying to take a rough estimate of the classes taking in mind their "decent/best" dps specs (for example what do you think of lethality? would you ever play it in ranked?). The results I think show some interesting results and conclusions:
a) the dominance of the melee classes over the ranged
b) which attributes seem to be valued or are more useful at least from a rated team perspective.

A spec specific tree is still useful in my opinion as it shows which specs are OP, UP, balanced. I am happy to do the 4-5 common specs of sages/sorcs and/or sents/maras (although imo all three specs are fairly representative of the attributes in terms of burst/mobility).

If such a thing is to be done it might deserve a separate thread. I am more than happy for anyone to start it and feel free to use the above table as a starting/generic point.

EDIT: The whole point of the generic table is that some classes do not even have a viable dps spec, and this is most referring to comms/mercs than the rest of the classes. The only exception in our server is on commando who every time I face him I think he is a vanguard. He is just plain ridiculously good beyond comprehension, and I hope they don't take his numbers and play into consideration.

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
01.26.2013 , 01:11 PM | #285
This could be interesting if we made a thread where people did not argume if something is OP but if a certain spec can be considered for example mobile or with above average survivability. It does require a lot of work though. May be i'll get to it in one night.

As for lethality, that's basically an artilery spec, you need support from your team, you don't walk alone between the mission objectives with lethality. I never tried it in RWZ, i usually went for MM or Engineering.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

Monterone's Avatar


Monterone
01.26.2013 , 02:54 PM | #286
Nice work with the list guys, I'll help you with my ratings also on all toons I play if you decide to make a big thread on all specs.

MR, and all the other guys who think we need a damage boost but no DFCD... I really have the same vision as you guys and I would love to play a pure glass cannon with crippling damage and no survivability (that part they got right), but I really don't think they can change the damage much, at least not as much as we think it deserves -- and that leaves mitigation.

In competitive team play a bit of extra damage won't make a dps sorc any more viable, since they will still always be a first target, and a quick one at that. The damage potential of the sorc would have to be increased tremendously for the teammates to appreciate having a sorc, with all the babysitting they have to do to keep one up against a good team. If the damage on a couple of melee specs got toned down a bit I think sorc dps would be noticed again, but bumping it up a bit might push the class into OP territory, and with the amount of sorcs in the game and the popularity of the class it would definitely start a chitstorm on the forums... and we know how that eventually ends up.

If I did, I'd change the damage by keeping the same damage on both DoTs but halving the length of them, better force management explained in a post above, and probably a small boost to burst via a proc to Shock damage/crit multiplier.

But since I really don't see any of that happening, I was thinking -- what would be the easiest bandaid fix for sorc? It's a simple cooldown that would allow a bit of competitiveness and who knows, might even enable a few good sorcs to enter rated and have a chance. I would prefer 6k crits, but do you really think they would allow for 4-5k Shocks on the main Shock? Or redesign the tree for shorter DoTs?

At best we can hope for a quick and easy DFCD, something easy to implement, and better force management through doubling the force regen to 2% per FL tick while in PvP combat. Those seem easy to implement and test.
Sominette . Saminette
Pot5 > Harbinger

Benets's Avatar


Benets
01.26.2013 , 04:59 PM | #287
This is so opbvious that it don't even need a post to know that. But seems that they dont care abouyt it at all, for me, i think a lot of things dumbs, like the class with the worst armor have no defensive cooldown and a slow dps. You need to survive for a while to begin some dps, but you cant survive this long. Anyone can kill you quickly. This is not a glass cannon, this is a a glass slingshot
- "Do or do not, there's no try" -
Benets
aka
Mxyzptlk

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
01.27.2013 , 09:09 AM | #288
New thread
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=591200

Feel free to contribute. Thanks.