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Vanguard // Assault Specialist

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Vanguard // Assault Specialist

Alduinsm's Avatar


Alduinsm
01.22.2013 , 02:39 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by oakamp View Post
wrong,
vg/pt was a middle ranged class,
but some stupid BW staff listen to pvp QQer to make a ridiculous decision to make a huge nerf on us just to balance their joke pvp,
but bw don't want to refund us our sub fee,
we didn't chose this AC for a melee class at patch 1.0,
if u(BW) think it should be melee, then u cheat us, and u should pay back our money and time, cause u lie to ur precious paying customers.
What huge nerf are you talking about? were you not dpsing at ~4m-10m for stock strike/iron pulse before the nerf?
Shin

Ruskaeth's Avatar


Ruskaeth
01.22.2013 , 03:04 AM | #12
People complaining about vanguards being squishy on melee range? Play a shadow or a scoundrel will ya.

Arlbo_Nabbins's Avatar


Arlbo_Nabbins
01.22.2013 , 03:42 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Eyesmindassassin View Post
You have no idea what you're typing about whatsoever.
You have no idea what you are talking about. If you are pulling aggro at the start of fights then you are the bad player, not the tank.

DPS needs to hold off for the first 10-15 seconds of a boss fight to let the tank build aggro, as a Vanguard use just enough of your high cost attacks to avoid wasting the ammo regen to allow the tank to build aggro. Then hit the high damage attacks. If the tank gets knocked back switch to basic attack while they get back and start building aggro again while ammo etc regens and then hit the high damage attacks. Ammo (and its equivalents) is the limiting factor in SWTOR for long fights so over a boss fight starting slow will not alter the overall amount of DPS that you put out by any measurable amount.

As a high DPS build you do have a threat mitigation, its Guard from the tank. Healers don't need guarding in SWTOR its the DPS that does. A good tank will never lose aggro to a healer.

I have tanked every boss in the game and with DPS players who know how to play their class you do not lose threat. Taunts can be saved for tank swaps or grabbing an add that has not been picked up and is about to hit the healers.

Siorac's Avatar


Siorac
01.22.2013 , 06:26 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
Meh my two credits, is that the PT and Van, need more "OH CRAP" buttons like the guardian/jugg and shadow/assassins have.

I mean lets face it my Vanguard only has the reactive shielding and adrenline rush to do a tad of limted healing.

The other 4 have WAY more "Oh Crap" buttons. Shadows can stealth and break combat. Juggs can go rage and just soak so much damage it's not even funny.

Again, make the vanguard and PT a bit closer in abilities for managing threat and damage.

I didn't go into merc/commando, that's a whole separate issue that needs a huge fix.
They should just make Adrenaline Rush a threat dump. It's ridiculous they don't have one, just as it was ridiculous that Guardians didn't have one before Focused Defense. Apart from FD, DPS Guardians don't actually have a lot of oh crap buttons, only Saber Ward (3 min cooldown) and Enure.

BrianDavion's Avatar


BrianDavion
01.22.2013 , 07:40 AM | #15
they should give vanguards an agro dump. they gave guardians one.

ok granted that was proably as much due to the vast majorty of guardian players in PVE going vigilance because the other tanking classes are by and large just better.

bpicerno's Avatar


bpicerno
11.19.2013 , 04:41 PM | #16
First off Vanguards are a melee class not ranged people need to get that right. Just because we have blaster rifle doesnt make us ranged.

My main issue with Vanguard Tactics and Assault is that we have no real way of closing the gap between us and a target sure we have harpoon in which has a long cool down. IMO all Vanguards should have storm since we are a melee class. Harpoon should probably be left as a shield specialist move only instead of storm. Knights/warriors have a force leap with a small CD. inquisitors/Consulars have force speed with a small cd. smugglers/agents have scamper for scoundrels/ops or the roll ability for sniper/gunslingers which can close gaps also hunkerdown to prevent people from leaping,pulling,storming,stuns or anything else really. In conclusion ALL Vanguards should have storm IMO.

As for the DPS We have one of the highest burst damage there is out there and can pull easily given A) a bad tank B) going full out flexing e peens right on pulls. Knowing such you should wait a few seconds probably 5 seconds to jump in and start your rotation. its about getting the objective completed not to make sure you have the highest dps or to flex your e peens pulling aggro. Also i will give you a hint if you know eventually you may pull aggro or know that you have high burst damage and generate alot of threat maybe you should use diversion a few times to help lower your threat. they made that move for a reason...use it...

ceelaniri's Avatar


ceelaniri
11.19.2013 , 05:15 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by bpicerno View Post
First off Vanguards are a melee class not ranged people need to get that right. Just because we have blaster rifle doesnt make us ranged.

My main issue with Vanguard Tactics and Assault is that we have no real way of closing the gap between us and a target sure we have harpoon in which has a long cool down. IMO all Vanguards should have storm since we are a melee class. Harpoon should probably be left as a shield specialist move only instead of storm. Knights/warriors have a force leap with a small CD. inquisitors/Consulars have force speed with a small cd. smugglers/agents have scamper for scoundrels/ops or the roll ability for sniper/gunslingers which can close gaps also hunkerdown to prevent people from leaping,pulling,storming,stuns or anything else really. In conclusion ALL Vanguards should have storm IMO.

As for the DPS We have one of the highest burst damage there is out there and can pull easily given A) a bad tank B) going full out flexing e peens right on pulls. Knowing such you should wait a few seconds probably 5 seconds to jump in and start your rotation. its about getting the objective completed not to make sure you have the highest dps or to flex your e peens pulling aggro. Also i will give you a hint if you know eventually you may pull aggro or know that you have high burst damage and generate alot of threat maybe you should use diversion a few times to help lower your threat. they made that move for a reason...use it...
nice necro...

VG/PT pyro/assault used to be a mid range class before a few nerfs happened (mainly: range of AP/TD changed from 30m to 10m)
Masamoto Pentesilhea

Nempo's Avatar


Nempo
11.19.2013 , 05:39 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Eyesmindassassin View Post
You have no idea what you're typing about whatsoever. Tanking in this game is not designed like tanking in other games. Even if you're Taunting off cooldown the DPS can easily pull off of you, especially Vanguards/Powertechs as they are literally the only class with no threat dump. Add to that, they do insane burst dmg and very high dmg (top 3 in the game, top 1 on some fights; torparse) and it's an absolute joke they wouldn't pull threat at least sometimes, especially in the beginning of the fight. Hell, I pull threat all the time on my Mara, doesn't make the tanks bad or me uber. It's just the way this game is horribly designed. That and dmg scales ridiculously from tier to tier while threat doesn't. Add to that, some tanks have terrible threat compared to the others (Juggernaut/Guardian) and it's even easier to pull aggro. Add to that, differences in gear (fresh 50 tank vs. fully min-maxed Dreadguard) and the tank is going to have a very tough time holding threat at all. Sounds to me like you're a horrendously bad Vanguard if you never pull threat off any tank ever. I have played with some really bad players and some were Powertechs, they still managed to pull off the tank from time to time. You must be abysmal if you can't.
You have no understanding of tanking in older games. It is up to the DPS to control heir own dang agro. Know when you can push and when you have to back off. WoW started the lazy DPS mentality...I would love to see how any of you would have survived in DAoC or UO where DPS had to snatch up adds and drag them to the tank due to how much agro healing drew...a tank had to stick on the most dangerous mob and the DPS had to jockey or drag the others into the tank's AoE.

S need to learn you don't mindlessly cycle through your rotation then yell when you get hit. It is the job of the DPS to pay attention to the tank, burst in that 4 second window (yes it is longer but with lag and server-client issues that may or may not present, expect it to be only 4 sec) immediately after a taunt, as your agro will not register while the target is debuffed by the taunt. Use a less agro intensive rotation at periods taunt is not up. You will find you NEVER pull agro and yet on parse charts you are cranking sky high numbers.

If you pull agro from a tank, it is your own fault and YOU are most likely the bad player for not paying attention. Don't blame the tank for your laziness.
"I am not driven by hatred. I am not driven by fear.
I am not driven by desire, duty, or any rationale. I can no longer feel any of these.
All that remains is Retribution; Cold and hard and final..."

CarlosTrevisan's Avatar


CarlosTrevisan
11.19.2013 , 08:16 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by bpicerno View Post
[...]IMO all Vanguards should have storm since we are a melee class. Harpoon should probably be left as a shield specialist move only instead of storm. Knights/warriors have a force leap with a small CD. inquisitors/Consulars have force speed with a small cd. smugglers/agents have scamper for scoundrels/ops or the roll ability for sniper/gunslingers which can close gaps also hunkerdown to prevent people from leaping,pulling,storming,stuns or anything else really. In conclusion ALL Vanguards should have storm IMO. [...]
This is why i love GameMods and Hate some "balance changes".
By moving Storm on skill three they make the class more balanced? Maybe. But they take off a very very fun skill to have on DPS builds.
SWTOR: A single use Color Dye costs the same as the Rise of the Hutt Cartel Expansion
-RISE OF THE HUTT CARTEL: you have: *increased level Cap; *New Skills; *acess to new gear; *expand your Star Wars Saga; *Access to new Elder Game Content; *uncover new devices
-Black and Black Dye Color you can: *paint the torso of an armor

bpicerno's Avatar


bpicerno
11.22.2013 , 11:33 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by CarlosTrevisan View Post
This is why i love GameMods and Hate some "balance changes".
By moving Storm on skill three they make the class more balanced? Maybe. But they take off a very very fun skill to have on DPS builds.
not saying to take off any moves just switch harpoon and storm. have harpoon as a tank only move and storm as a overall vanguard move. I believe that would balance out alittle more.