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Take a page from WoW and let Tanks do some dmg.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Suggestion Box
Take a page from WoW and let Tanks do some dmg.

Grendelwolf's Avatar


Grendelwolf
01.20.2013 , 04:03 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by AsheraII View Post
You are joking, right? Tanks and Healers in this game do relatively a lot of damage compared to a game like WoW. But not only that. Somehow, the developers also managed to make tanking and healing actually FUN in this game, which is something Activision never really managed. The few methods of tanking and healing that were actually somewhat fun to do were nerfed into oblivion there, for "fear that too many people would flock to those specs and the other specs would not be used anymore". Odd reason huh? They've given the exact same reason for some other class/spec combination, and simply said they didn't want to bring them on par with other specs because it was too much fun..
I hated both tanking and healing in WoW, while I'm actually enjoying it here!

Yes, you deal a little less damage still than true DPS specs as a tank, and a healer won't be able to top the DPS charts AND keep everybody topped up at the same time. But both have been designed to do their share of damage, and both deliver on that.
Tanking and Healing in SW tor is just like any other MMO, put on the right stance, jump in first to grab agro, taunt enemies that drop agro from you. It's the same in every MMO. no difference. Tank in one MMO, you can tank in any MMO.

Only difference is that in other MMOs tanks don't take 4 minutes to take down en equally level single mob. In SW ToR you need to have all that survivability because it takes forever to take anything down. I am NOT suggesting putting tank damage on par with DPS classes, I am suggesting that they beef up our damage output a bit.

BTW, I am not talking about PVP. Besides, increasing our damage output a bit is not game breaking.

In any other MMO tanks that wield 2 handed weapons hit like a Mac truck, but swing a bit slower than one handed classes. So when they hit/crit, the mob feels it and takes a substantial amount of damage. Not in SW ToR, taking down a single mob especially one that has a HOT or any other healing abilities, it takes forever since tanks damage output can't hit for more than what the mob can heal through.
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Kilikaa's Avatar


Kilikaa
01.20.2013 , 04:27 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Phyltr View Post
I can't understand this logic. "Hey, there is this one game that has been out for many years now and has had time to refine basic quality of life enhancements like dual-spec, group finder, and UI add-ons, but heaven forbid we use these basic quality of life additions because that other game did it first and then we'd be accused of trying to be like it.".

Have you ever seen the way someone setup their living room and said "hey, that's a good idea, I should do that.", or seen a co-workers commute to work that took less time and decided to follow the same path? Well following your logic you absolutely can't do that because you weren't the first one with that idea. The concept that if someone else did it that you are now banned from doing it is the most brain-dead thing I've heard in quite some time. Where would technology be today if people weren't embracing and enhancing things other people did?
Basics are one thing. In case you missed the point, we should NOT do like wow and let tanks deal MORE damage than they already do. Tanks are fine in this game. They do not need to be like wow. I also stand by what I said in that this game needs to stop trying to copy wow. It is time to take things in a differant direction. Giving tanks more dps is not something BW needs to copy from wow. This has nothing to do with group finder or dual spec. This is about tanks dealing more damage. that is NOT a basic quality of life feature.

Kilikaa's Avatar


Kilikaa
01.20.2013 , 04:32 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Grendelwolf View Post
Tanking and Healing in SW tor is just like any other MMO, put on the right stance, jump in first to grab agro, taunt enemies that drop agro from you. It's the same in every MMO. no difference. Tank in one MMO, you can tank in any MMO.

Only difference is that in other MMOs tanks don't take 4 minutes to take down en equally level single mob. In SW ToR you need to have all that survivability because it takes forever to take anything down. I am NOT suggesting putting tank damage on par with DPS classes, I am suggesting that they beef up our damage output a bit.

BTW, I am not talking about PVP. Besides, increasing our damage output a bit is not game breaking.

In any other MMO tanks that wield 2 handed weapons hit like a Mac truck, but swing a bit slower than one handed classes. So when they hit/crit, the mob feels it and takes a substantial amount of damage. Not in SW ToR, taking down a single mob especially one that has a HOT or any other healing abilities, it takes forever since tanks damage output can't hit for more than what the mob can heal through.
Unlike other MMOs, we have companions. If you are out by yourself and have trouble taking down a mob quickly then pull out a dps companion. I take down mobs pretty quickly with my Shadowtank because I always have Nadia out. Her dps with my defense is more than enough for most enemies. Tanks are fine in this game. We do not need more damage output.

Benets's Avatar


Benets
01.20.2013 , 06:39 PM | #14
A lot of bad things this game have is from wow. The greater the distance from wow better this game'll be. I still think they should remove some things that they copy from wow.

Tank should resist damage and not do it. If you let tank do more dps, you should do the same with healer, and soon be dps will be of no use.
- "Do or do not, there's no try" -
Benets
aka
Mxyzptlk

Kynesis's Avatar


Kynesis
01.20.2013 , 10:54 PM | #15
It seems the curmudgeons are out in force lately...
I had characters of nearly every class for years in a certain other MMO, as I do in SWTOR and I strongly support the OP; not because of any relation between particular MMO's but for the lessons I learned from the experience, something a great many people seem dead against because (arrogant, ignorant) Opinion.

The great privilege of Tanking isn't that you're nigh-indestructible, you most certainly are not. The privilege of Tanking (and healing) is the Role, the respect, the responsibility, the tactics. If all that mattered was having something for the boss to beat on, there are certainly many options that don't require one player to sacrifice their time & goals for the sake of everybody else.
The only reason why tanks (or frankly even healers for that matter) shouldn't have a greater impact on DPS is the fear of balancing Hybrids. On the other hand, attacking stuff is what most people enjoy most - not everybody of course, I say 'most' because I mean most, but not everybody. I point this out because I've seen this debate several times and no matter where it takes place, the arguments for and against are always the same.

There is no scenario where anybody's having fun if your character can't accomplish things in a reasonable time or can't participate as fully as other players. There's no reason or value in hamstringing tanks just because they fill a particular role in groups. Most importantly, all classes need a similar range of capability and viability with core features (ie combat) to sustain participation.

Relegating healers and tanks to only being 'fun' in the narrow context of their group role gives RPG's and MMO's exactly the problem they all face - too few tanks and frequently, too few healers.

I'm not suggesting there shouldn't be a balance - else we'd all simply run tanks and healers, I'm not suggesting that the only option is straight-up DPS increases either. The balance is out of whack though and the issue does need serious review.

MajikMyst's Avatar


MajikMyst
01.21.2013 , 12:22 AM | #16
My big issue with tanks at the moment isn't damage.. It is threat generation.. I don't feel I should have to spam a taunt just to maintain aggro off a well geared DPS... My tank is 100% campaign with some dread pieces..

I just want a little more threat generation be it more damage or just a small increase in the threat generated by our skills..
Who is the more foolish? The fool or the fool that follows him?

[.] Lost but never forgotten!! 12-01-2011 R.I.P.

BrianDavion's Avatar


BrianDavion
01.21.2013 , 12:33 AM | #17
companions however really do mitigate things a bit.

that said guardians could use a bit of a buff to bring defence guadians up with the other tank classes

PetFish's Avatar


PetFish
01.21.2013 , 01:49 AM | #18
No thanks.

Tanks are tanks for a reason, to take damage, protect allies, and occupy enemies. That's why you make groups with other DPS and heals while you protect them. If you're doing solo content then get out your DPS companion and guard them.

The only area where your problem of no-DPS-tank could really exist is in PvP if you happen to get randomed in a pug with 4 other tanks and 3 heals. Any other time just do what The Rock says and know your role.
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PhantomMalice's Avatar


PhantomMalice
01.21.2013 , 01:50 AM | #19
For those people who say Tanks should take damage but not effective at dealing damage in return probably never played that much of MMO. In Asian styled MMOs like Aion and TERA, their "tanks" are more than capable of taking damage, holding aggro and own faces all at the same time. Those of you who played as a Templar in Aion will know what I am talking about.

SithLordaeron's Avatar


SithLordaeron
01.21.2013 , 02:05 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by gabarooni View Post
I love playing as a Tank but boy it kills my immersion when I have to beat on something for 5 minutes with my "Lightsaber" just to kill it. In Wotlk wow started letting Tanks do decent dmg on their own and it didn't ruin the game in anyway. Just made playing as a tank much more enjoyable. Please please purtty please.
In my opinion it did ruin WoW. One of the main reasons I left was that Blizzard had created two superclasses of Paladins and Death Knights. They were relatively balanced in PVE against other tank classes but in PVP they were virtually unkillable. And then they neglected to substantially nerf them despite many complaints.

With abilities like Divine Shield and Lay on Hands, pvp against a pally tank was like fighting a raid boss. It went something like this: damage paladin tank to near death, paladin tank bubbles and heals himself to full in 2-3 seconds, damage him to near death again, paladin tank casts Lay on Hands healing himself to full, damage him to near death again (while you are taking small amounts of damage constantly), paladins bubble comes off cooldown, he bubbles and heals himself to full in a few seconds, repeat ad nauseum. DK tanks were different but the same result.

A class that has a excellent defensive abilities needs to do less damage. If you want to quest faster, pull out a dps companion.