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Why do people give so much hate?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why do people give so much hate?

Mirab's Avatar


Mirab
01.18.2013 , 07:05 AM | #11
Because they have serious anger-management issus.
Let's just enjoy this game with all it's bugs ... I know I do. I came back from the same game you mentoned and I really enjoy myself here.

Fornix's Avatar


Fornix
01.18.2013 , 07:13 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by _Darkstar View Post
It is entirely a generational thing, you see it in every game these days and you never used to see it, and it is nothing to do with bugs because bugs happened in the old games too.

I guess people are just so expectant these days, they never get told they are failures so they don't understand why other people make mistakes and that together with the anonymity of the internet makes them feel like they can vent their pent up rage (Which is usually about themselves).
I highly disagree, this sort of behavior is absolutely nothing new. However, its context has been shifted.

Even 50 years ago you already had your usual armchair coaches, who believed they could do it all better than the coaches or players. That same mentality hasn't changed, just the playing field has been changed.

Rather than being a football or rugby armchair coach, they're doing it to videogames. Believing they can do a better job at it than the current publishers and developers.

If things go well, their usual line of thinking will be like "See. SEE!! I told you this would work! Didn't I tell you this would work?! God, they should hire me already and I'll make it work from the start next time!". And if things don't go well for a bit? Well, then they'll be sure to have all their gripes ready on as to why according to them it wouldn't be going well.

It's something which is never going to change, it's simply part of the nature of some people.
Member of <Helix>

Ighten's Avatar


Ighten
01.18.2013 , 07:13 AM | #13
In all honesty check any forum for any game (especially an MMO) and you'll find the same picture; the same arguments; and the same issues - be it balance, bugs or declarations of war at being forced to buy something that isn't what it says on the tin..

Its sad that people on forums seems to think that when they have something important to say it comes down to bashing.. Is it any wonder you hardly see devs posting anywhere anymore be it here, GW2, Rift etc etc..

Kalfear's Avatar


Kalfear
01.18.2013 , 07:21 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Glided View Post
Hello, i'm new here and this is my first thread ever. I gave it some thought about what I wanted to make m first thread about and I have decided that I really wanted to know why people regard this game as trash. It takes time for an MMO to gain momentum. this game has been out for a year now, we are just getting started

Like, I was talking to my friends and I told them I picked up SWTOR and they just laughed at me. To be honest I have had more fun in this game than 3 years of WOW. So what do you guys think?

Why do people hate this game so much?
Im not sure where this mystical "it takes time" theory grew from but its NOT founded in truth of any form.

Now im not hating on TOR here,
I currently play TOR
I currently pay a monthly sub for TOR (something I can assure you I would not do if I hated it)
I currently have bought the misnamed Makeb Content update despite being assured I would get content updates for frewe with my subscription.

But heres the truth of matter

TOR had HUGE interest prior to launch
TOR sold 2.3 million copies of TOR (thats 2.3 million players signed up knowing TOR was a subscription base game. That eliminate the false theory that the sub scared people away)
TOR Had a huge amount of full servers and demand for more

And all that came crashing down with in a month, 2 months, 3 months

At the 6 month mark EA made a public statement they had no interest in F2P anytime soon
6 months later F2P was upon us

At last investors meeting the best guestimation is TOR then had UNDER 400k paying subs (it was hard to tell with EA counting free trials as paying subs)

So to answer your question

The hate comes from the utter failure to meet market and fan expectation
The hate comes from the closed door/closed mouth approach EA has taken towards the TOR player base
The hate comes from not receiving the game players were promised

Now were some of thos expectations out of whack....yes they were.
It was evident to anyone paying attention this was not SWG2.0, so that crowd has only themselves to blame.
It was evident this was a heavy Themepark design, so those that expected Full sandbox or even 50% sandbox were fooling themselves.

BUT there was also stuff that could have been controled expectation wise and flat out wasnt. Not only was it not controled, EA made it appearently policy before launch to allow the most outlandish claims to be made with out a word to the wise (we back at the closed mouth policy)

I understand the hate
I dont agree with all of it,
but I understand it

Most of the hate could have been controled and even turned into positive spin if only EA had communicated with its fan base before, dureing, and after launch.

So the basic answer is the hate directed at TOR is actually allot of misdirected hatred meant for its creator.

If you can seperate the corperate EA from SW:TOR (as much as possible anyways), you can find ways to enjoy TOR, for a while anyways.

This game is not growing its base OP, its hit the bottom and got only 2 choices, close or rebuild. But do not think the rebuild is a planned thing. TOR lost its 1.9 million of initial base and was forced into areas it had no designs on at the time (no matter what spin you read).

Most of the hate could have been avoid with just straight forward open communication with the player base.

I been playing this genre 21+ years now and even I completely misunderstood a early dev diary because it was so abstract in facts, just offered up allot of suggestion and possibles and let my imagination run with it.

I wont lie, when I found out first hand Taris WASNT ANYTHING LIKE THEY DESCRIBED IN THE DEV DIARY.
I was spitting fire mad as I had been looking forward to the concept they sold me on, not the product they delivered.

Hope that explains it for you.
In regards to lessening F2P and Preferred restrictions
In GAMING, as in LIFE,
You get what you pay for
No game restriction is so dire that $15.00/month will not eliminate it

anstalt's Avatar


anstalt
01.18.2013 , 07:24 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Ighten View Post
In all honesty check any forum for any game (especially an MMO) and you'll find the same picture; the same arguments; and the same issues - be it balance, bugs or declarations of war at being forced to buy something that isn't what it says on the tin..

Its sad that people on forums seems to think that when they have something important to say it comes down to bashing.. Is it any wonder you hardly see devs posting anywhere anymore be it here, GW2, Rift etc etc..
Check the LOTRO forums, its a world of difference to here and has been since LOTRO launched. Sure, there are gripes (generally lack of content) but the LOTRO forums are mostly inquisitive or positive.

The primary reason, imo, is managed expectations and good developer interactions. Announcements in LOTRO are done properly, with full information so that people don't expect anything extra. Class balances now go through a community peer review a lot of the time, so the community gets a genuine say in what happens to their classes within the scope of the upcoming changes.

In TOR, they promise us loads of stuff and dont deliver, or annouce stuff with no details given so we end up expecting lots and receiving less. Bioware constantly set themselves up for disappointment.
Anstalt - lvl 50 valor 81 Shadow Consular

Currently retired due to poor design decisions within the game that have killed its longevity. Get rid of Hickman before he ruins the game completely!

slafko's Avatar


slafko
01.18.2013 , 07:27 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by anstalt View Post
What happened is that pre-launch this game was hyped up massively. We got tons of developer diaries and videos telling us how epic this game was going to be, how different it was going to be to WoW.
...
Then the game came out.
This pretty much sums up not only SWTOR, but GW2 also. D3 too.

Arlon_Nabarlly's Avatar


Arlon_Nabarlly
01.18.2013 , 07:29 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Glided View Post
Why do people hate this game so much?
Because hate leads to suffering and some people just want to watch the world burn (and most of those people troll the internet).

andreas_barth's Avatar


andreas_barth
01.18.2013 , 07:38 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by anstalt View Post
People don't hate the game that much.

What happened is that pre-launch this game was hyped up massively. We got tons of developer diaries and videos telling us how epic this game was going to be, how different it was going to be to WoW. It was being made by Bioware (widely respected story tellers) alongside a load of PvP devs who'd come from Mythic, i.e. they'd worked on Dark Age of Camelot (widely respected as having the best open world pvp) and Warhammer Online.


Then the game came out.


The game could not live up to the hype generated by the devs. The story telling was extremely weak, the pvp was bland and broken, the classes were boring, the worlds were linear..... As a result, the community, myself included, got angry. We'd been sold a lie.

The game itself is actually a solid game, relatively bug-free in comparison to many others, lots of endgame content, pvp is relatively balanced (in comparison to other mmos, i know there are a lot of fixes needed). However, there is nothing unique here and it is certainly not the game we were promised. So, most sensible people quit the game when they realised that they'd been lied to. Some people didn't care about the lies and are happy in WoW with a Star Wars skin. Others, like me, remain believers in the potential of TOR and thus come on the forums on a regular basis and "offer suggestions" on how to improve the game, but this often comes across as ranting
Tbh, I never expected all that, and I dont belive I was promised that either. It's more like you guys lied to yourself about the game. But oh well, maybe it's a bit of both. And what developers do NOT hype their game in the exact same way this was?

sharpenedstick's Avatar


sharpenedstick
01.18.2013 , 07:38 AM | #19
In many ways, this game is very solid. Not particularly special, but solid. Unfortunately, it suffers from a number of defects, and in most instances EAware's actions have only exacerbated the problems.

1) Pre-launch hype was crazy. There was talk that this would be a WoW killer, when it was really just a circa-2008 WoW clone.

2) Fully voiced gimmick means that content comes at a greatly increased cost to EA. Consequently, new "content" tends to be daily hubs, and even those are staffed by mission terminals so you don't have to voice it (Black Hole, Section X, etc).

3) Gameplay is incredibly linear. This is probably the most linear major MMO in history. 99% of quests fall in to two camps. Kill 10 rats, or collect 10 rat bones. There are very, very few escort quests, no vehicle quests, no (or virtually no) talk-down quests where you can resolve everything through the chat wheel. Bonus quests are very grindy (especially multi-stage kill 25, kill 50, kill super dude) and don't always follow the same behavior (sometimes finishing the main quest objectives (not turning in) closes the bonus, sometimes it doesn't). Space personifies the linear nature of SWTOR, because it's literally just a rail shooter.

4) The worst dev communication of any AAA MMO. Irregular and largely pointless dev blogs, very little community engagement, significant turnover in community relations staff, terrible customer service (a guildie has been unable to buy cartel coins for three weeks now. If there were one area I'd have thought they'd be sharp on, it'd be the scam store).

5) F2P, which actually saved the game, also points the way to future content allocation. For every actual game play update, you can expect five patches consisting of re-skinned items and lottery specials in the cartel market.

6) Unimaginative WZ design (although this has been improved somewhat with Ancient Hypergate), where everything is essentially capture and hold, and everything is 8 man. World pvp is a total failure, especially Ilum. I mean, if they were going to copy Wintergrasp, they could have done it right. I could fix Ilum in a day. One day. Just add a lockout timer between rounds, and a faction wide bonus to the winner, and maybe a penalty to the loser. How is it taking them over a year?

7) Toxic fanboi forum defense force for whom any assertion that SWTOR isn't the best game that there ever was, will be, or could be instantly provokes an absurd torrent of abuse, primarily consisting of variations of "go back to Pandas." It's possible to like SWTOR but be frustrated by its shortcomings.

8) A bizarre lack of dev interest in mini-games, especially given Bioware's past development in this area. Mini-games are great for MMOs because they offer additional content for everyone, and they can become the main reason some people keep playing. Housing is often like this. Many people stuck around in SWG because of their stuff, and the hunt for more stuff to stick in their house. Fanbois can mock WoW's pokemon fight system, but the reality is that a certain subset of players will get really into it, and it stimulates secondary markets and content behaviors (in WoW's case, the acquisition of pets).

9) Curiously shallow development choices. Races that are just cosmetic skins. Dull companion gear allocation (for instance, every single trooper companion, except 4X, is heavy armor AIM primary). Hideous armor sets (who thought that War Hero Jedi Consular was cool? Really?). No cross-server queues. No in game metrics. No in game VOIP. Phasing technology only in class quest/group quest areas. Rail shooter space. Poor end game crafting.

10) Very poor level design. Taris and Balmorra are just not fun. Planets are very small and very linear. It can take almost 10 loading/black out screens to get from one planet to another. Really, who thought that running through an empty space station just to endure another loading screen would be fun?

The reality is that EAware has made a very solid MMO, but it almost completely bereft of invention or inspiration, and for the money they sank into it, that's just sad. Many of us like aspects of the game, but it falls short in the nitty-gritty.

andreas_barth's Avatar


andreas_barth
01.18.2013 , 07:47 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by sharpenedstick View Post
In many ways, this game is very solid. Not particularly special, but solid. Unfortunately, it suffers from a number of defects, and in most instances EAware's actions have only exacerbated the problems.

1) Pre-launch hype was crazy. There was talk that this would be a WoW killer, when it was really just a circa-2008 WoW clone.

2) Fully voiced gimmick means that content comes at a greatly increased cost to EA. Consequently, new "content" tends to be daily hubs, and even those are staffed by mission terminals so you don't have to voice it (Black Hole, Section X, etc).

3) Gameplay is incredibly linear. This is probably the most linear major MMO in history. 99% of quests fall in to two camps. Kill 10 rats, or collect 10 rat bones. There are very, very few escort quests, no vehicle quests, no (or virtually no) talk-down quests where you can resolve everything through the chat wheel. Bonus quests are very grindy (especially multi-stage kill 25, kill 50, kill super dude) and don't always follow the same behavior (sometimes finishing the main quest objectives (not turning in) closes the bonus, sometimes it doesn't). Space personifies the linear nature of SWTOR, because it's literally just a rail shooter.

4) The worst dev communication of any AAA MMO. Irregular and largely pointless dev blogs, very little community engagement, significant turnover in community relations staff, terrible customer service (a guildie has been unable to buy cartel coins for three weeks now. If there were one area I'd have thought they'd be sharp on, it'd be the scam store).

5) F2P, which actually saved the game, also points the way to future content allocation. For every actual game play update, you can expect five patches consisting of re-skinned items and lottery specials in the cartel market.

6) Unimaginative WZ design (although this has been improved somewhat with Ancient Hypergate), where everything is essentially capture and hold, and everything is 8 man. World pvp is a total failure, especially Ilum. I mean, if they were going to copy Wintergrasp, they could have done it right. I could fix Ilum in a day. One day. Just add a lockout timer between rounds, and a faction wide bonus to the winner, and maybe a penalty to the loser. How is it taking them over a year?

7) Toxic fanboi forum defense force for whom any assertion that SWTOR isn't the best game that there ever was, will be, or could be instantly provokes an absurd torrent of abuse, primarily consisting of variations of "go back to Pandas." It's possible to like SWTOR but be frustrated by its shortcomings.

8) A bizarre lack of dev interest in mini-games, especially given Bioware's past development in this area. Mini-games are great for MMOs because they offer additional content for everyone, and they can become the main reason some people keep playing. Housing is often like this. Many people stuck around in SWG because of their stuff, and the hunt for more stuff to stick in their house. Fanbois can mock WoW's pokemon fight system, but the reality is that a certain subset of players will get really into it, and it stimulates secondary markets and content behaviors (in WoW's case, the acquisition of pets).

9) Curiously shallow development choices. Races that are just cosmetic skins. Dull companion gear allocation (for instance, every single trooper companion, except 4X, is heavy armor AIM primary). Hideous armor sets (who thought that War Hero Jedi Consular was cool? Really?). No cross-server queues. No in game metrics. No in game VOIP. Phasing technology only in class quest/group quest areas. Rail shooter space. Poor end game crafting.

10) Very poor level design. Taris and Balmorra are just not fun. Planets are very small and very linear. It can take almost 10 loading/black out screens to get from one planet to another. Really, who thought that running through an empty space station just to endure another loading screen would be fun?

The reality is that EAware has made a very solid MMO, but it almost completely bereft of invention or inspiration, and for the money they sank into it, that's just sad. Many of us like aspects of the game, but it falls short in the nitty-gritty.
Even though I belive you're exaggerating a bit I agree that 3 and 8 are very, very valid points.