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Your take on The Sith Order and the Jedi Order!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Your take on The Sith Order and the Jedi Order!

Canino's Avatar


Canino
12.31.2012 , 05:41 PM | #21
Oh no, you did not pick a fight about lore with Aurbere! TAKE COVER!!!!!*runs and hides in bunker*
STATEMENT: I'm just a simple assassin...I mean bodyguard, master. You have nothing to fear.
---------

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.31.2012 , 07:32 PM | #22
Hmmm, unlike many other people here, I completely see where your coming from. The Sith began as the followers of Bogan who likely only saw themselves as expanding their knowledge of the Force. And as the second tenet of the Jedi Code dictates (and the first tenet of the Je'daii Code):

'There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.'

This only seems to encourage practice and discovery of the dark side, which led to the followers of Bogan and the Force Wars. The followers of Ashla, rather than embrace the Bogan teachings rejected the knowledge and so proved their own ignorance (the irony being that only after the war did they invent the tenet about knowledge, when the war itself revolved around the rejection of it.) Yes the dark side is dangerous, and yes it leads to hate, anger and suffering at the cost of power. But to reject knowledge of it completely, and refuse to comprehend it is to be willingly ignorant and will inevitably lead to more war between Jedi and Sith as they refuse to understand and accommodate their enemy - just reject them outright. Does this not seem in contradiction with the Jedi Code? Don't forget the often ommitted fourth tenet:

'There is no chaos, there is harmony.'

How many times have the Jedi willingly embraced chaos and rejected harmony by warring against the Sith? To achieve their distorted version of peace? It seems to be that the Jedi should have never rejected Bogan in the first place, and instead attempted to accommodate it into knowledge of the Force in a non-malevolent way. A difficult task yes, but a task the Jedi should have taken on to prevent countless deaths in the future. But they didn't, instead they embraced ignorance and chaos and to me that seems hypocritical. At least the Sith are true to their code.

And no, it is not a coincidence that Kreia would agree with me.

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
12.31.2012 , 07:44 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by YeIIow View Post
even on http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hundred-Year_Darkness they were the victims, they did not atacked the jedis, they left the order to do what they wanted to do... yes ok, they started messing with "arcane arts" necromancy and **** after a wile, but still.... they were not slaving populations, killing inocents, taking sapient species as test subjects.....
Do you believe they would have stayed that way?
If you start using the dark side, you start to want more. They would at least have taken sentient species as test subjects.
And I assume using the Dark Side to manipulate animals goes along with a lot of suffering for the test subjects.

Also, while reading this article, I found this:

"Firmly adamant in protecting their newly-acquired powers, this sect of Jedi sought to convince the other Jedi to join their quest for eternal life and galactic bliss. The others were not convinced, and tried to distance themselves from the situation. Firmly convinced that their way was right, the arguments turned into conflict. The rogue Jedi were exiled along with their teachings. A war had begun that would last a hundred years.

Retreating from Jedi worlds such as Tython, the exiled Jedi raised an animalistic army of dark side abominations."

So the Jedi tried to forbit it. The Dark Jedi didn't listen. Then the Jedi exiled them. Then the Dark Jedi started to raise an army. This sounds like the Dark Jedi actually started the war after being exiled.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

Filo's Avatar


Filo
12.31.2012 , 08:14 PM | #24
See pic for reference:
http://i.imgur.com/SL334.jpg
Are you the ultimate idiot? Click here to find out!

Inzuher's Avatar


Inzuher
12.31.2012 , 08:29 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Sebah View Post
So you judge the current people by the action or their ancestors? I ask you again, is extinguishing all life in the galaxy justified by the fact that at some point in the past some dark side users got their *** kicked by some light side users?
You're comment display how little you know of the sith. It is only Darth Nihilus and The Sith Emperor who want tp extinguish all life in the galaxy. Nihilus because he can't control his endless hunger and The Sith Emperor because he is crazy. However, the sith themselves has no reason to destroy the galaxy, but want to shape it into the form that they see fit. Meaning that they want to change the world into what they view as a better place, and seriousy who doesn't? I mean take a character like Darth Caedus he sacrifices everything in order to bring order and peace to the galaxy. He takes the hard decsions in order to preserve the galaxy, he takes respondsabillity!

The jedi however, are hypocrits who are to afraid to take respondsabillity. They have special powers, yet they refuge to claim it and use it for the greater good. They see fit to seek knowledge and yet allow people without that knowledge to rule.
"I am that which grips the heart in fright, hearkens night, and silences the light.".

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.31.2012 , 10:11 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Hmmm, unlike many other people here, I completely see where your coming from. The Sith began as the followers of Bogan who likely only saw themselves as expanding their knowledge of the Force. And as the second tenet of the Jedi Code dictates (and the first tenet of the Je'daii Code):

'There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.'

This only seems to encourage practice and discovery of the dark side, which led to the followers of Bogan and the Force Wars. The followers of Ashla, rather than embrace the Bogan teachings rejected the knowledge and so proved their own ignorance (the irony being that only after the war did they invent the tenet about knowledge, when the war itself revolved around the rejection of it.) Yes the dark side is dangerous, and yes it leads to hate, anger and suffering at the cost of power. But to reject knowledge of it completely, and refuse to comprehend it is to be willingly ignorant and will inevitably lead to more war between Jedi and Sith as they refuse to understand and accommodate their enemy - just reject them outright. Does this not seem in contradiction with the Jedi Code? Don't forget the often ommitted fourth tenet:

'There is no chaos, there is harmony.'

How many times have the Jedi willingly embraced chaos and rejected harmony by warring against the Sith? To achieve their distorted version of peace? It seems to be that the Jedi should have never rejected Bogan in the first place, and instead attempted to accommodate it into knowledge of the Force in a non-malevolent way. A difficult task yes, but a task the Jedi should have taken on to prevent countless deaths in the future. But they didn't, instead they embraced ignorance and chaos and to me that seems hypocritical. At least the Sith are true to their code.

And no, it is not a coincidence that Kreia would agree with me.
There are several issues with your post.

1. The rendition of the Code you have posted was created several thousands of years after the Tython and Great schism stuff. The Code you posted was created by Odan-Urr and was much more modest (though deceptively controlling and constricting) than what the original was. The original Code seems less controlling, but as we see from the Schisms, they were controlling. Odan-Urr's Code allowed for the Jedi to study the Dark Side so long as they were able to control it. Unfortunately, Odan-Urr's Code has been taken far too literally.

Okay, so only one thing but it addresses the points you made... kinda.

Edit: Didn't see you mention the Je'daii. Anyway, the first tenet of the Je'daii Code was expanded upon by the far wiser Odan-Urr. I would advise caution when learning the way of the Je'daii, as they had a meager grasp of The Force. Turn your attention to the likes Odan-Urr and Yoda.

Edit again: I'll be discussing the Jedi Code in a future thread. Look forward to it you will
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.31.2012 , 10:13 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Inzuher View Post
The jedi however, are hypocrits who are to afraid to take respondsabillity. They have special powers, yet they refuge to claim it and use it for the greater good. They see fit to seek knowledge and yet allow people without that knowledge to rule.
Jedi serve as guardians, not as rulers. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

jedimasterjac's Avatar


jedimasterjac
12.31.2012 , 11:45 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Canino View Post
Oh no, you did not pick a fight about lore with Aurbere! TAKE COVER!!!!!*runs and hides in bunker*
We're all gonna die!
"Perhaps you were expecting some surprise, for me to reveal a secret that had eluded you, something that would change your perspective of events, shatter you to your core. There is no great revelation, no great secret. There is only you."

―Darth Traya, to the Jedi Exile

jedimasterjac's Avatar


jedimasterjac
12.31.2012 , 11:53 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Jedi serve as guardians, not as rulers. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Then why does the council get involved in politics?
EDIT: the Jedi Council leads the Jedi do they not? Therefore, they rule the Jedi.
"Perhaps you were expecting some surprise, for me to reveal a secret that had eluded you, something that would change your perspective of events, shatter you to your core. There is no great revelation, no great secret. There is only you."

―Darth Traya, to the Jedi Exile

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.01.2013 , 12:35 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by jedimasterjac View Post
Then why does the council get involved in politics?
EDIT: the Jedi Council leads the Jedi do they not? Therefore, they rule the Jedi.
The Jedi act as advisors. They hold no authority in the Senate. If their advice is taken, then great. If not, well you know.

As to the Jedi Council. You take that out of context. The Jedi Council doesn't rule the galaxy (which is the context for said quote). Now one could say the Council rules the Jedi. Which they do. But not "rule". They govern the actions of the Jedi and all of its branches. Members of the Order are allowed some measure independance, but should they commit actions that are against the Jedi Code, action is taken. The action depends on the severity of the issue. And there are multiple Councils to deal with certain issues. The Jedi Council is not a totalitarian or tyrannical and oppressive governing body. And one member doesn't hold all of the power. In fact, the Council could be considered akin to the Senate.

Edit: another thing. Society and culture requires a governing body to set the rules and standards for its members. The Jedi Council is necessary for the Jedi Order to survive to serve the galaxy. Whatever power the Jedi Council holds is used to serve, not to rule.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku