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Forget about new classes . . .

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Forget about new classes . . .

TheNahash's Avatar


TheNahash
12.31.2012 , 02:51 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Cleet_Xia View Post
Ummm... Why again would they have to do that?
Because such an addition would only make sense if it were appealing to both old and new players, even more so to old players because new players have 8 stories to go through before feeling that they've seen all the game has to offer story-wise. If you keep the class stories the same for new classes, people who have already got their toons to 55s will have no reason to level a new one and go through the same things again, especially if you've already been through a class story twice just to see the other side of the coin. And seeing how this whole thing would require A LOT of resources, we can safely say that there wouldn't be much new content coming out for old players during the production of these new adv. classes.

Quote: Originally Posted by Cleet_Xia View Post
Then Dont - Buy exp unlocks - do 4/5 class missions a planet, solo the heroics, unlock the bonus series on Nar Shadaa, Tatooine, & Alderan. And skip everything else but the class story all the way to level 47 by Ilum.
...or just pvp to 55. Or do only FPs to 55.
But that's not the point. The point is that people will (and quite understandably so) say that they don't want to go through all that again. I like leveling alts and you might too, but not everyone does. Grinding for gear, doing the same quests again (albeit from a slightly different perspective) or the same fps again and again is not for everyone. When you plan something as big as new adv. classes you can't just say "ah, people will just roll alts if they want them". You have to take into consideration that a lot of people just don't feel like doing the same things all over again just because this time you'll have 2 lightsabers instead of one. And you want to keep those people, you don't to invest time and manpower to develop something that will ultimately displease your fanbase - especially since that fanbase is extremely...ahm... let's go with... volatile

Quote: Originally Posted by Cleet_Xia View Post
They already did that when they went F2P
No, they didn't. Going F2P means that it might take longer to produce new class stories or the continuation of the existing ones, but never have they said that class stories are dead. Just because Makeb doesn't have new class stories doesn't mean they're dead and it would be stupid of them to just confirm what haters are saying ("the best thing about Swtor is dead").

Quote: Originally Posted by Cleet_Xia View Post
Not even talking about more than 2 new animations per AC - the game already reuses animations between the classes, so we're talking about a handful of new animations.
Ah, but you see that was acceptable when the game was shiny and new. A few animations looking similar was OK. Can you imagine people's reactions when they roll a new Sith Avenger (or whatever the OP called them) that's essentially a Marauder with a bit of lightning here and there?

Aizen's Avatar


Aizen
12.31.2012 , 04:00 PM | #22
I have this concept for a class called the Sith Desponder.

Personally I would love to see class that is akin to the sith sorcerer, but the catch is that they induce attacks via melee combat that cause some kind of illusion / visual throw off on the player when hit, unique blurs, and slows that attacks that don't slow down the movement of the target, but rather their reaction to avoiding attacks temporarily etc.. No bleed effects, but effects that leave opponents scared by the dark side of the force over time spent as they fight. mixed with unique single saber acrobatic skills that are similar to starkiller for example - minus the way he holds his saber. This melee style makes up for lacking actual defensive buffs. As this type of class wouldn't be an over the top damage dealer, That's a Mara's job. This class would be seen as force / melee skilled disruptor, meant to torment / hurt both the mind and body.

The defense is also in how they use the force to effect the target during combat. Forward, but not quite like the force classes we know. The kind that preys on your mind as well as your ability to fight him. A strong will can overcome the despair that this sith can inflect, and if that is achieved this type of sith is in trouble, but it won't be easy to do so..

Not sure which armor type, but it's between medium and light armor. I have skill list that I am working on, but since it's a idea / dream class. I'd only share it if asked out of pure interest.

Petnil's Avatar


Petnil
12.31.2012 , 04:37 PM | #23
I wouldnīt forget about new classes. If they ever make an expansion it could happen(refuse to call Makeb an expansion). Letīs dream on. If it was done like Blizzard did with deathknights story wouldnīt be that big a deal. Make this new class start at level 45 and get one shared planet for both factions. You play through this class story and at the end of it at level 48ish you choose faction.

It would be a sorry excuse for a class story with only one planet but if were ever to get a new class this would be the cheap way of dooing it.

Beyorn's Avatar


Beyorn
12.31.2012 , 05:01 PM | #24
OP what a good post ;D. I really like your ideas.

I'm afraid though that we are not going to get anymore class stories sadly ;(. Once we have got thru all the content that they had on the drawing board (I think I read somewhere with the old time table it was a year, I think Erickson said it-correct me if I'm wrong) I'm afraid that it will be maintenance mode from there on out.

The story is the best thing about this game too. /pout

Cleet_Xia's Avatar


Cleet_Xia
12.31.2012 , 05:07 PM | #25
I wouldn't call them volatile... I'd call them melodramatic brats. No matter what happens, every week, the forum is flooded with complaints about any and every scrap of info that can be gleaned from the patch notes/ dev tracker/ pod cast/ cartel shop/ ..... it doesn't matter what they do, or who said what. The forum will not be appeased.

I agree, it would be an incredibly lazy way to add content to the game. But that is what makes it such a brillliant idea. It adds a lot of variation at little cost. If people want to get mad that they added something to the game... that's messed up. They don't have to play it. But I've been playing this game since launch, and there are not too many of us left from way back then. The fresh variation in play might actually bring some people back. I can't even remember all of my class story from my main anymore ~ wouldn't bother me one bit to play through again ~ it was a good story. And they gave away all of the existing story with F2P. I do hope there is more in the future. But I don't see how adding these AC's would prevent more class story, or more classes from being added in the future.

Here's another way to look at it...

What has to be added to introduce a new class with 2 ACs & a mirror class into the game?
1) about 54 abilities with 108 animations < many are utilities like interrupts, cc, kb, stun, mana regen, basic heals, etc
2) roughly 64 - 80 class missions per faction
3) a class buff (or rip off a class' unique buff - that's fair - players will love that, nobody will be mad)
4) a whole new main stat & gear to go with it at all levels - modify all loot tables/ comm, weapon, mod, & armor venders
5) 10 companions with approx 40 companion conversations & 6 companion missions (about 46 cutscenes)
6) 6-8 class mission instances on every planet + maybe 4 out in space somewheres (100 - 132 in total)
7) cutscenes for every class mission (100 - 132 at least ~ many missions have multiples)
8) loot tables for every class mission (100 - 132 in total) (not going to count the special loot tables for the dailes)
9) a crapton of VO work, part of which has to somehow be shoehorned into the existing multiplayer content
10) a whole new floor to the fleets just for their ship instance
11) PvE & PvP venders
12) class trainers on every planet
13) a major overhaul to the legacy UI to include the new class
14) mods to the character creation UI
+ a mega-massive number of bugs from the extensive mods to the existing worlds

What do we get by adding 1 class + mirror?
1) 2 class stories
2) 10 tech trees (12 but 4 are the shared trees)
3) about 32 actual new active abilites that do something cool
4) a 25% increase in the number of AC options

~VS~

What do we get by adding 8 ACs?
1) a 50% increase in the number of AC options
2) at least 32 new active abilites that do something cool
3) 16 new tech trees (24 - but 8 are shared trees)
4) interesting gear options

Recap...What is required to add 8 ACs to the existing classes?
1) create 32 new abilities with 32 animations < - this would completely remake PVP btw
2) modify animations for perhaps 48 more abilities (roughly 80 new animations in total)
3) add gear to the PvP & PvE venders for spec choices that didn't previosly exist ( e.g.medium armor tank gear)
4) modify the loot tables for the FPs & OPs
5) add a few weapons to loot tables, weapon/comm venders (saberstaffs w/str mods, offhand sabers w/wp, cunning blaster rifles)
6) modify menus for for the AC & class trainers

Just let that soak for a little bit......

Less animation work - for the same amount of truely new active abilities
no new story content - but more 60% more new tech trees
a WHOLE LOT LESS work. - even if they did 108 new ability animations.

I don't doubt they could add a new starter planet with a continent for each faction, and make new class stories happen. Because most of the planet mission VO seems to have a vanilla mode, and just a special bit for one specific class every so often. The play VO that is in the FPs is actually pretty limited except for the Esseles & BT. So they could do it. But I'm just looking at those lists... and.. which do you think has any chance of happening in the next 12 months? 8 AC's would probably be less work in dev than a new Operation.
~Master Telagtun Telag of Lord Calypho~

Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
12.31.2012 , 05:17 PM | #26
There is no reason why a new class is out of the question. For all we know they already laid the ground work for another class and are waiting to release it.

Since it is improbable they did that, they can simply add a class and give a reason it doesn't have a direct class story. Just like WoW had a hero class (which was only the DK), there is no reason the developers can't simply add a "hero" class that uses a fully leveled character and converts it to a new class. WoW's original idea was a long quest chain that converted your character into a death knight. They eventually dropped it but it was the original idea.

I'm not saying that's the solution. I'm just saying there are limitless possibilities. The sky is the limit here. Just because they can't write a direct class story doesn't mean we won't ever see new classes.
Hooning in the rex : http://youtu.be/xtXUM6yPMCY

TheNahash's Avatar


TheNahash
12.31.2012 , 05:40 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Cleet_Xia View Post
I wouldn't call them volatile... I'd call them melodramatic brats. No matter what happens, every week, the forum is flooded with complaints about any and every scrap of info that can be gleaned from the patch notes/ dev tracker/ pod cast/ cartel shop/ ..... it doesn't matter what they do, or who said what. The forum will not be appeased.
Oh, trust me...I know.
I was just trying to be nice because it's New Year's Ever

Quote: Originally Posted by Cleet_Xia View Post
I agree, it would be an incredibly lazy way to add content to the game. But that is what makes it such a brillliant idea. It adds a lot of variation at little cost. If people want to get mad that they added something to the game... that's messed up. They don't have to play it.
Ha. Funny thing is the exact same thing could be said about the game itself. But if you took a quick look around the forum you'd think that some people are being forced to play a game they simply hate...

Oh but it's "constructive criticism". And anyone who doesn't agree with them (or actually likes what he's paying for) is a fanboy and a biodrone...

Well, you get it.
I've never seen such a hostile site that wasn't a hate site but an official forum.

But I digress. My point was that those people who consider the lack of chairs in-game "gamebreaking", the people who want Wow with a different skin but then again not really because "lolwut who plays wow anymore? noooooob" and also want the game to be more like SWG but then again they left SWG first chance they got to go play Wow... yeah, those people would once again be upset if they were not given everything immediately, with 0 bugs and for free.

And unfortunately those voices are the ones that make the biggest impact in the community here.

I don't think SWTOR needs any more bad publicity and all I'm saying is that if they decide to do something like the OP suggests, they should try to at least make the transition as smooth as possible for old players.

Legend's Avatar


Legend
12.31.2012 , 05:41 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by nocaps View Post
All "New Classes" threads eventually concede that getting new classes in the game is a pipe dream because of the monumental amount of work it would take to script and voice entirely new Class Stories, but there is still a chance to see new "classes" . . . Advanced Classes!

New Advanced Classes added to the current 8 classes wouldn't need new Class Stories, they'd go through the same ones the other 2 Advanced Classes share.

So, here's my ideas . . .

Jedi Avenger - a Double Bladed Sabre using Jedi Knight ... Medium Armor tank and dps trees.
Sith Destroyer - a Double Bladed Sabre using Sith Warrior ... Medium Armor tank and dps trees.
Jedi Archon - a Dual Wielding Jedi Consular ... Light Armor heal and dps trees.
Sith Harbinger - a Dual Wielding Sith Inquisitor ... Light Armor heal and dps trees.
Squad Leader - a pistol using Trooper ... Heavy Armor heal and dps trees.
Ranger - a rifle using Bounty Hunter ... Heavy Armor tank and dps trees.
Scout - a rifle using Smuggler ... Medium Armor tank and dps trees.
Fixer - a pistol using Imperial Agent ... Medium Armor heal and dps trees.

EDIT: my post isn't so much about actual new advanced class ideas so much as it's about "how do we get new classes introduced" . . . anyways made a couple tweaks to my ideas.
Loving it. Lets hope the dev's take a look here.


Quote: Originally Posted by Cleet_Xia View Post
<---MIND BLOWN

This is like the ..... the most intelligent thing I've seen on this forum ever.....

It's that simple.... They add new mechanics around the existing abilities using the AC class skills, the tech tree talents, & the new active abilities...

SWEEEEEET IDEA!!!

May I sugggest.......
Jedi Harbinger
Sith Avenger
Squad Leader - a pistol weilding Trooper with group buffing abilities.
Ranger - a autocannon using Bounty Hunter with various CC options.
Listen to this man, he speaks the truth

Cleet_Xia's Avatar


Cleet_Xia
12.31.2012 , 07:36 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by TheNahash View Post
Oh but it's "constructive criticism". And anyone who doesn't agree with them (or actually likes what he's paying for) is a fanboy and a biodrone...
..........
I don't think SWTOR needs any more bad publicity and all I'm saying is that if they decide to do something like the OP suggests, they should try to at least make the transition as smooth as possible for old players.
I see your point. And I think it is constructive. No matter what they do, it should not take away anything from the experience we have right now. And if they did this, they better not make anyone feel like "their toys" were taken away and given to another class. They woould have to set the bar for the animations high, like they did with the animations for HK - but I still have a lot of faith in those artists to pull it off. They've done a very good job of blending together bits and pieces of different emotes and various smaller visual effects to create animations that feel unique. I think that they could use recolored parts from the Mara animations to make a dual weilding consular, and most players wouldn't even realize they did it.

[OFF TOPIC]
It it's not just this forum - it's become very en vogue to find fault in everything. But it's always been easier to turn cake into **** - than it is to turn **** into cake. It's not cool, ironic, enlightened, more intelligent, 733t, or even entertaining. Accusing others of bias is just the easiest thing for them to do, even though it makes them lazy hypocrits.

Right now the game rates up there at least as high as flour, eggs, & milk. It needs a lot of work, but it's far from hopeless.

SWTOR really needs to institute a customer rewards program better than the CC grant. A lot of people would shut their yap if BW simply gave subs something exlclussive every few months that COULD NOT be bought through the cash shop. Remember how the community acted when they passed out the founders titles? Some people ate that up. My cartel coins don't feel particularly "special". I know a lot of subscribers had to be hacked off when they saw the new weapons from the cartel packs that had animations. Some of CC stuff is way more cool than stuff we've gotten before, and that's not right. At this point if they were to add 8 more ACs to the game, or new classes, they shouldn't be F2P - subs only! I know that will burn up some people that let their account lapse to preffered status ~ but they get the right to complain back when they start paying again.
[/OFF TOPIC]
~Master Telagtun Telag of Lord Calypho~