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Why is the JC story bashed? (Unhidden Spoilers)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Why is the JC story bashed? (Unhidden Spoilers)

Ranadiel_Marius's Avatar


Ranadiel_Marius
12.29.2012 , 08:47 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
As to the information in your spoiler:

Spoiler
Spoiler


Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
I don't find that to be a particularly compelling critique either. All the masters have done terrible things. Half of them ask you to kill them. Yoda wanted Obi-Wan to kill Anakin, and when he wimped out, he wanted Luke to do it. It's not necessarily problematic to kill the masters. It's just not the best outcome.
This wasn't a problem that I personally encountered, but I will continue the discussion. The only reason your character is sent into these situations was because he has the shielding technique and therefore can solve the situation without killing them. A DS JC then proceeds to kill off 5 masters, one jedi, and some large number of other jedi off screen.....and then gets rewarded with one of the most prestigious titles in the Jedi Order. A DS JC kills off more Jedi than the SI and yet he gets rewarded for doing a good job. There is a just a disconnect there that can be kind of hard to deal with. A DS JK at least is denied being made a Master in the storyline if he is DS(even if they get the title anyways).
A Primer on the Emperor(yes this does have spoiler)

One Night Stands and Similar Encounter (spoilers again, and I am probably going to repost this sometime in the future)

Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
12.29.2012 , 08:50 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Pubsam View Post
I didn't say that individual planets didn't have their little subplots and complications. Every class story experiences this. These subplots are baseline, and for each class they serve an overarching plot. The overarching plot is what I'm criticizing - for the JC it is incredibly repetitive. I compared it to the BH's story because that story also has a repetitive overarching story. This kind of story is naturally boring, and I think BH Act I is one of the weaker stories because of it, but it is still better written and more interesting than JC Act I.
Like I said in the OP, though, every single Act I has the same story structure. Let's take the most commonly cited favorite the IA. The IA faces the exact same issue and choice on every planet. Break up the terrorist cell. That's it. If the JC story can be boiled down to "save the master or heal them", then the IA story is "break up terrorist cell". The JK is "recover/destroy superweapon", the BH is "get bounty", the Trooper is "catch/kill traitor", etc.

This is what blows my mind. If you judge the JC story by its skeleton, why not the others?
Republic Level 55s - Alana, Rickta, Nal'aa, Alan, Myschal, Sinbad, Frank'lin, Angiola, Vesnas, Nightsail, Mioni, Hard-Top, Arbaaz & Psionicist
Imp Level 55s - Palatine, Ztephanie, Frank-lin, Ka'Mate, Chisami (BH), Azureraven, Curiosi-dux, Vodoun, Thefia, & Chisami (IA)

Icebergy's Avatar


Icebergy
12.29.2012 , 09:11 AM | #33
Its not so much that anything is wrong with it, in a vacuum it is a good story and would make a fine stand alone RPG imo.

The problem is compared to the other stories (well, compared to five of them anyways, the SI and BH are on the same level as the JC) it falls flat. It is the 7th best story, only beating out the SI story.

The top three, IA, JK, and SW are far and away superior to the rest. And then the middle two, Smuggler and Trooper are quite a bit better than the bottom three.
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Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
12.29.2012 , 10:43 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Icebergy View Post
Its not so much that anything is wrong with it, in a vacuum it is a good story and would make a fine stand alone RPG imo.

The problem is compared to the other stories (well, compared to five of them anyways, the SI and BH are on the same level as the JC) it falls flat. It is the 7th best story, only beating out the SI story.

The top three, IA, JK, and SW are far and away superior to the rest. And then the middle two, Smuggler and Trooper are quite a bit better than the bottom three.
I agree the Sith Warrior story and the JK story are pretty epic. Your character's motivations are clear and sensible.

The IA story is mind-boggling to me. It's one of the worst spy stories I've ever experienced. The IA, more than most Imperial citizens knows that the Sith Empire is unworthy of saving and yet, over and over again you work in their interests. I'm almost done and it does appear that you get an out in the end, but my Chiss IA would have got out of dodge after Act I and tried hard to get the Chiss Ascendency to join the Republic. I look at the IA story and compare it to movies like Skyfall. There although Bond is sorta 'betrayed', you can understand why he is OK with it and why he comes back. You can also understand why the villain in that movie is both wrong, but sympathetic.

When I got to Act III with the IA and finished Belsavis, I nearly stopped right there, but the desire to complete my legacy powers drives me on. It blows my mind that people really like:

Spoiler

But the Children of the Emperor storyline is somehow unworthy. I don't know, I guess I'm looking at this from a literary sense. I'm starting to think, it's not the story that bother people, it's the role. The story holds up as a narrative better than most of the others. But I think people just didn't like what the JC was expected to do. Nevermind that it fits the lore and class to a tee. But to say that the JC story is poorly written and the IA is well-written just makes me go: ---->
Republic Level 55s - Alana, Rickta, Nal'aa, Alan, Myschal, Sinbad, Frank'lin, Angiola, Vesnas, Nightsail, Mioni, Hard-Top, Arbaaz & Psionicist
Imp Level 55s - Palatine, Ztephanie, Frank-lin, Ka'Mate, Chisami (BH), Azureraven, Curiosi-dux, Vodoun, Thefia, & Chisami (IA)

SuperGrunt's Avatar


SuperGrunt
12.29.2012 , 01:09 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Ranadiel_Marius View Post
Having completed all 8 stories, my personal opinion is that the storyline is alright, but I found it to be the second to last story in terms of how interesting it was. Mind you, I consider it leaps and bounds better than the last place storyline, which I consider to be horribly done(as anyone who has seen one of my SI rants can tell you).

As for why I rank it so low? I really can't give any kind of concrete reason for it. I just found it less interesting than the 6 stories that I rank above it. I guess I would say that I consider it competently done, but the other 6 are well done to amazing. To some extent, it just didn't draw me in. For example:

Spoiler


Then there is the Nadia romance....which is all kinds of hilarious for all the wrong reasons. As for the Rift Alliance, I found myself completely uninterested in them except for the guy from Balmorra(who leaves your ship way too early) and the two you recruit in Act 3. The others were just freaking annoying. Well maybe not Senator Grell, but I didn't care for him either.

I guess the bottom line for why it ranks so low is that I just didn't care about a lot of what was going on for one reason or another.

However I was playing a LS JC. I have heard that the storyline feels considerably worse if you play a DS JC. My understanding is that the game doesn't really react when the JC makes DS. You geefully kill off multiple masters of the Jedi order? Oh well, they weren't important anyways. So that disconnect may be part of why some people dislike the story so much.
Took long enough, but someone finally used a Spoiler alert, that should have been in the Subject and pretty much all of the posts in here should have has Spoiler tags.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
12.29.2012 , 01:29 PM | #36
Truthfully, a DS JC perplexes me. You go the whole time trying to find a cure for them, cure them, THEN kill them? If you were going to go that route, why not just kill them, instead of sarificing part of yourself?

DS JK I can understand as it's storyline has seemed to beable to put you there. DS doesn't mean you have to be Pro-Empire.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
12.29.2012 , 01:30 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by SuperGrunt View Post
Took long enough, but someone finally used a Spoiler alert, that should have been in the Subject and pretty much all of the posts in here should have has Spoiler tags.
The title of the thread has (Unhidden Spoilers) in it. Why would people use spoiler tags, when the thread itself says "hey, not using them"

Ranadiel_Marius's Avatar


Ranadiel_Marius
12.29.2012 , 01:31 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
Like I said in the OP, though, every single Act I has the same story structure. Let's take the most commonly cited favorite the IA. The IA faces the exact same issue and choice on every planet. Break up the terrorist cell. That's it. If the JC story can be boiled down to "save the master or heal them", then the IA story is "break up terrorist cell". The JK is "recover/destroy superweapon", the BH is "get bounty", the Trooper is "catch/kill traitor", etc.

This is what blows my mind. If you judge the JC story by its skeleton, why not the others?
Some people have complained about the "skeletons" of other class stories. I can't recall seeing it in any recent thread, but I know around release there were at least a few threads complaining about the JK storyline because it was just "destroy superweapon" planet after planet. I know I've seen people complain about the BH storyline being repetitive.

As for why some people complain solely about one class story being repetitive but not another, I imagine it is how well the sub plots of the planet suck them in making them forget the over reaching plot. Maybe the JC complaints really stem from people not finding the B plots interesting enough to make them forget the repetition in the A plot. *shrug*

As a side note, I feel it is necessary to point out that the SW actually managed to avoid the repetition present in the other storylines somewhat by making the two sets of two planets have different objectives.

Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
When I got to Act III with the IA and finished Belsavis, I nearly stopped right there, but the desire to complete my legacy powers drives me on. It blows my mind that people really like:

Spoiler

But the Children of the Emperor storyline is somehow unworthy. I don't know, I guess I'm looking at this from a literary sense. I'm starting to think, it's not the story that bother people, it's the role. The story holds up as a narrative better than most of the others. But I think people just didn't like what the JC was expected to do. Nevermind that it fits the lore and class to a tee. But to say that the JC story is poorly written and the IA is well-written just makes me go: ---->
Hey now.

Spoiler


While the role is probably part of the reason that the class is disliked, I don't think that covers everything. While I think the over reaching storyline was fine for the most part, I think that its execution was lacking. It wasn't as good at drawing me in and making me care about the events and characters as any other class story(except for the SI which is the most poorly executed of the class stories). The IA storyline by contrast made me really care about what happened to my agent. I cared about what was happening to him during Chapter 2. I found the conspiracy in Chapter 3 to be interesting.

P.S. I think you might have missed my previous post which is at the top of the current page(at least with my forum settings).
A Primer on the Emperor(yes this does have spoiler)

One Night Stands and Similar Encounter (spoilers again, and I am probably going to repost this sometime in the future)

Shailen's Avatar


Shailen
12.29.2012 , 02:04 PM | #39
Quote:
The IA story is mind-boggling to me. It's one of the worst spy stories I've ever experienced. The IA, more than most Imperial citizens knows that the Sith Empire is unworthy of saving and yet, over and over again you work in their interests. I'm almost done and it does appear that you get an out in the end, but my Chiss IA would have got out of dodge after Act I and tried hard to get the Chiss Ascendency to join the Republic. I look at the IA story and compare it to movies like Skyfall. There although Bond is sorta 'betrayed', you can understand why he is OK with it and why he comes back. You can also understand why the villain in that movie is both wrong, but sympathetic.

When I got to Act III with the IA and finished Belsavis, I nearly stopped right there, but the desire to complete my legacy powers drives me on. It blows my mind that people really like:
I never post on these forums but I just had to agree with this. I found the IA story to be extremely lackluster, with a few minor high points in Act 2. Act 3's plot was ok, but it's main villain was completely lame and I found myself wondering over and over why my chiss was bothering with all of this? It was definitely a bad spy movie. Although I went through the IA story after doing the SW (epic!) and after reading time and time again on these forums how amazing and well written it was...so perhaps my expectations were too high.

As for the JC, I'm enjoying it very much. I've been in this game since launch but took a long break a few months back. I leveled 3 characters to 50 (SW, JK, and IA), when I came back I decided to start fresh and do something a bit different to my other characters so I went DS JC. I've thoroughly enjoyed the intrigue and to be honest it feels alot more jedi-ish than the JK story, not that i'm putting the knight story down, i loved it, but the JC has more to do with jedi teachings and lore.

I'm on Voss at the moment and still enjoying it, the only downside I would say is that I don't feel like my companions as a whole are as interesting as other classes I've played. If I had to guess why people bash the JC story I would say partially because people read over and over on the forums how bad it is, therefore if they play one for themselves they go into it with a bad taste. Also, it has a different pace than the others, its more about intrigue than flat out action.

Chaoskyx's Avatar


Chaoskyx
12.29.2012 , 03:49 PM | #40
Eh, I liked Belsavis because it was kind of like a first contact scenario, and it actually felt as though I could fail in winning over the Esh-Kha. The final battle was also pretty exciting with the way I pounded at the door as Hallow Voice was basically being murdered, although I thought it was kind of weak that I just healed him(?) after his organs were probably fried from being forced out of stasis. It would have been more dramatic to break down the door before that happened, in my opinion.

My time on Belsavis was really the only part of the consular story I enjoyed, however, because it feels like the only point in the story which requires you to make difficult decisions. The character of the consular is pretty much a mary-sue in that (at least when played light-side) they possess no notable character flaws and are able to bypass dramatic plot points by simply using their powers to fix everything (as in the case of Vivicar and Syo).

I mean, I'm playing a jedi master, so I suppose I can forgive the lack of character flaws, but even so, I never really need to make difficult decisions; I've also played through the trooper, smuggler, and bounty hunter stories, and I simply can't become as invested in the consular story as I can with those. The others all require difficult decisions which you solve by considering your principles (the bounty hunter story is really freaking good in that respect), but the consular story doesn't have much other than light side/dark side.

TL;DR: It's pretty meh.