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Why is there a difference between KOTOR and SWTOR

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Why is there a difference between KOTOR and SWTOR

Blackldr's Avatar

12.22.2012 , 11:11 PM | #1
I went back the other day and played my copy of KOTOR 1 and 2, and I'm really dissappointed. You could spec you player no matter what way you wanted to. Yes we all know that there has to be a difference for every player, but I could have Revan wield either 2 lightsabers, or a saberstaff. When I started the beta I was hoping for the same thing. I was woefully mistaken and hoped that there would be a chance that would change.

I hope and pray that the developers are looking at changing this small tidbit of the game because i think that the weapon makes the character and I think an assassin would use 2 sabers instead of a staff.

Kitru's Avatar

12.23.2012 , 12:21 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackldr View Post
I hope and pray that the developers are looking at changing this small tidbit of the game because i think that the weapon makes the character and I think an assassin would use 2 sabers instead of a staff.
It's not going to happen for a number of reasons.

The first, and most obvious, is game balance: if everyone can dual wield or use superior weapons (DBLS, Autocannons, Sniper Rifles, etc.) and your loadout is only determined by whatever you feel like using, players would be gimping themselves by using the suboptimal loadout (for pretty much every class except for tank classes, the optimal loadout would be to dual wield since that deals the most damage; for tanks, the loadout would be a superior weapon and a shield). It wouldn't really create much variation in appearance; it would just homogenize appearance based on other attributes. You could say that the developers could, potentially, add commensurate benefits to all of the various weapon loadouts to balance them out, but, at that point, you're asking for a lot of work for a largely negligible benefit (it's a lot of work for a mediocre improvement in customizable play), especially since, if there are any flaws in the math, you'll end up just homogenizing a vast majority of players' appearances.

The second, and the biggest one, is animations: every ability in the entire game would need 3 animations for all of the saber-jockey's (single saber, DBLS, and dual sabers) and 4 for all of the Tech classes (blaster rifle, single pistol, dual pistols, sniper rifle, assault cannon). As it stands, most abilities only have 1 (because that's all they need) and, at most, have 2 (if it's a common ability of 2 different classes with different loadouts). There are only two ways to get around this: either you make a crapton of new animations (which is a lot of work) or you reuse a lot of animations (which is boring to look at). Considering the "payoff" isn't really all that massive (most players are fine picking the class with the weapon they want rather than getting upset that their class of choice has a predefined weapon), it's not a reasonable use of existing resources.

KotOR and SWTOR are not the same game. KotOR was a single player game, which meant that game balance wasn't really a major concern. SWTOR is *not* a single player game; players are directly competing with each other, in PvP by trying to kill one another and in PvE by eking out better numbers than one another. Game balance between all of the various options is something the developers *have* to think about and consider. It's also not a continually evolving game so, rather than trying to pack as many features in as possible at release to encourage replay and experimentation (which will drive initial sales more), the development team has to consider what the actual development and in-game costs are for anything they work on. The amount of effort required to make an aesthetically diverse, mechanically balanced way for all of the various loadouts to be usable by all classes is just too high to justify it.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
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Blackldr's Avatar

12.23.2012 , 11:12 AM | #3
She might know all, and I know there is a difference, but i think the player should have the choice if their warrior wants a saberstaff or 2 light sabers. Also the way the forms are in the skill tree sucks and i really wanted to have the ability to become a Swordmaster.

seven_deadlies's Avatar

12.23.2012 , 11:59 AM | #4
Maybe you should go back and reread that last post, before you continue your complaints any further.

Single player games, you can customize to your hearts content. You are the only one who gets to look at the end product.

MMOs are about balance and competition. Even if -you- don't PvP, the game has to account for others PvP'ing. And unless they nerf everything so it all becomes exactly equal, there is no balance. Unless they can set all parameters, so a single saber, or a double saber, or dual wielding sabers... all deal exactly the same damage regardless, there will always be "the best way" to do something. And once people figure out "the best way" that rapidly becomes "the only way" to do something. Pretty soon, its not about if you wanted to carry 1 or 2 or doubles. The "only way" to compete with the rest of the game, is to use whatever gives the most bang for the buck.

And as was also explained... it takes animation effort to make your characters movements with their chosen weapon delivering each attack. You'd have to program every characters sets of attacks, with every weapon they could possibly wield. Or they'd just make very attack look the same. You know that Force Leap? Now you pushed a button, and your character just sort of blinks from here to there. You know what Spinning Slash? No, now you just stand in place and see several damage numbers scroll by instead of 1.

Blackldr's Avatar

12.23.2012 , 12:20 PM | #5
I went to school fo programming and i know how much time and effor went into the mmo but the problem is that certain classes are already nerfed like marauders. There is no real damage for him even as dps and the weapons are simply cosmetic. it's not hard to say that throwing a saberstaff would be any more dangerous as a standard lightsaber. So no the animation and everything wouldnt get nerfed.

seven_deadlies's Avatar

12.23.2012 , 02:39 PM | #6
Whatever form of programming their using, obviously animation has a lot to do with it.

The Consular power called Project would unearth a large boulder, astromech droid, or bit of deck plating... and then hurl it at the opponent. The animation looked really cool, but it took a while to conjure the projectile before throwing. And players noticed that the damage didn't register until the object actually struck. They had to actually change the animation, so the projectile appears faster, in order to make the damage register faster.

Smugglers can hide behind Cover. Just by crouching behind something more than waist high, they can negate incoming damage. If you crouch down kinda close to a crate, but not actually "behind" it, then you still get shot.

So apparently animation is kinda important to how the game plays out.

Also, Marauders can have some of the best DPS in the game. Maybe you're doing it wrong? =)

ultronx's Avatar

12.24.2012 , 02:52 AM | #7
If you are talking game balance based on weapons, then take a page from previous attempts at game balance.

single lightsaber - balanced offensive/defensive abilities plus a faster reaction times
(game play the charcter utilies 60% of his abilities offensively as well as defensively.

2 lightsabers or "lightspear?" - focused on either offensive or defensive with slower reaction
(game play balance either 75/15 offensive focus or 15/75 defensive focus with customizable +/- 10% meaning anywhere from an 85/5 to 65/25 offensive focus to a defensive focus of 5/85 to 25/65 effort.

What this would set is that single lightsaber players use 120% of their abilities but split for even based attack and defense. those with 2 lightsabers or lightspears only use 90% of their abilities but can customize themselves to either tank or deal damage. in this way players can choose their method of gameplay, from slow and steady to outright attack to hard as a rock approach with good and bad qualities across the board giving game balance.

Thundergulch's Avatar

12.27.2012 , 11:17 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Blackldr View Post
the problem is that certain classes are already nerfed like marauders. There is no real damage for him even as dps and the weapons are simply cosmetic. .
uhh what?