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Too many people are moving away from Juggs. Bioware, please help.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Too many people are moving away from Juggs. Bioware, please help.

Krozis's Avatar


Krozis
12.20.2012 , 11:11 AM | #1
A trend I've noticed over the past several months is that people are moving away from Juggs to Marauders.

I personally never liked Rage. It's -always- been good, but now it's extremely hard to convince anyone of the value of Vengeance... especially in ranked PVP. (Bioware: what are the numbers like on Juggernauts playing Vengeance in Ranked PVP? I'm assuming it's super low?)

So for some reason we saw Immortal got cut off at the knees. Why? I'm not sure... never saw anyone complaining about 31 spec Immortal damage the way I see 31 point tank Shadow/Assassin damage. <--- this really doesn't make any sense. Nevertheless, you did it. So how many people would say play a 'tank' Juggernaut in 31 Immortal spec? It's also broken.

As a result, I've seen more and more people move away from their juggs. There are some diehards, don't get me wrong, but generally people are seeing Jugg as having a bad tank tree (you MUST hybrid it in PVP to get the most out of your survivability which is WRONG for a tank tree. The damage is truly lethargic thanks to your changes.)

With Marauders (no this is NOT a NERF marauder thread) people see 3 valid PVP trees. All have their uses, and some are downright perfect for specific maps.

Bioware, I'm begging you to take a long look at Vengeance spec. Right now it feels like a neutered hybrid of Annihilation and Carnage.... an ugly, sibling of those trees. Bioware please take a look at how many Vengeance Juggernauts/Guardians are playing in ranked warzones.... I'm betting it's very close to where Arsenal Mercs/Commandos are sitting.

For the record I have all classes at 50. While I feel the Merc is the most lacking in PVP right now, Vengeance spec Jugg is my first class to 50 ( I think!) and it's WAY over due for some help. I also confess I'm one of the people who left the Jugg for a marauder. I got him to 50, and transferred the gear.

Is there any chance we could see something with Makeb and the new levels that will help some of the game's lackluster specs? I'd love to see some love for Vengeance.
̿̿'̿̿\̵͇̿̿\= Formerly from a big guild that is now hundreds of tiny guilds. =/̵͇̿̿/'̿̿ ̿ ̿
Krozis \ Vintego \ Vint

byteresistor's Avatar


byteresistor
12.20.2012 , 11:51 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Krozis View Post
So for some reason we saw Immortal got cut off at the knees. Why? I'm not sure... never saw anyone complaining about 31 spec Immortal damage the way I see 31 point tank Shadow/Assassin damage. <--- this really doesn't make any sense. Nevertheless, you did it. So how many people would say play a 'tank' Juggernaut in 31 Immortal spec? It's also broken.
They didn't nerf it because of PvP complaints, obviously there weren't (m)any to begin with. They buffed immortal aoe damage/threat (people were complaining about the lack of it in PvE), but they did it in a retarded way... at the expense of single target damage.

Krozis's Avatar


Krozis
12.20.2012 , 02:05 PM | #3
Ah, ok.... that may very well be the case as my experiences with the class are 90% PVP related. I'm not even sure if it's just the people I recognized as Juggernauts (myself included) but many of the Jugg PVP types have seemed to move away from it due to those reasons.
̿̿'̿̿\̵͇̿̿\= Formerly from a big guild that is now hundreds of tiny guilds. =/̵͇̿̿/'̿̿ ̿ ̿
Krozis \ Vintego \ Vint

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
12.20.2012 , 02:40 PM | #4
well, in SWTOR generally people divide into those who play for mechanics and those who play for role/specs. I would not, ever turn from Juggernaut simply because holding saber 2h is much more effective than using dual sabers in combat. 2h way is much more stable and safe.

but looking stat wise, yes Juggernauts deserve a little bit of boost in their pvp dps/survivality - but hey! we have force push and force push is the funniest ability in the whole game ( for me, at least )
Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us- Except the ones who are dead.

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
12.20.2012 , 03:21 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Surinen View Post
well, in SWTOR generally people divide into those who play for mechanics and those who play for role/specs. I would not, ever turn from Juggernaut simply because holding saber 2h is much more effective than using dual sabers in combat. 2h way is much more stable and safe.
You seem to have forgotten your own category : the ones who plays for a visual style. (I'm myself one of them)
Choosing a class on what they wear/use is not in the domain of mechanics, and neither in the domain of role/specs.

I think that in SWTOR we can add another category that doesn't exist in other MMOs : the ones who plays for an image/story.

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
12.20.2012 , 03:50 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
You seem to have forgotten your own category : the ones who plays for a visual style. (I'm myself one of them)
Choosing a class on what they wear/use is not in the domain of mechanics, and neither in the domain of role/specs.

I think that in SWTOR we can add another category that doesn't exist in other MMOs : the ones who plays for an image/story.
yup, you are right, in fact second part of my first phrase was supposed to be about look not role/spec, missworded myself. Image/story is very important!
Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us- Except the ones who are dead.

Knockerz's Avatar


Knockerz
12.21.2012 , 07:31 PM | #7
Only reason to play a jugg is if you want to tank. Sentinel or mauras do a lot more dps in both pve and pvp, plus in pvp they have superior defensive cds. However, bh tanks are easier and more effect than guardians, especially for aoe tanking in that you don't need to be in melee range to use your aoe.

I moved over to sentinel to various advantages as a dps. I still play my guardian. My main problem with guardians is they are supposed to be more defensive than sentinels/maras, but in reality sentinels are more defensive and have superior dps in pvp and pve. Thus, there is little reason to continue playing a guardian or jugg if you intend to play a dps role otherwise only reason to play a guardian is to tank in pve.

Knockerz's Avatar


Knockerz
12.21.2012 , 07:34 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
You seem to have forgotten your own category : the ones who plays for a visual style. (I'm myself one of them)
Choosing a class on what they wear/use is not in the domain of mechanics, and neither in the domain of role/specs.

I think that in SWTOR we can add another category that doesn't exist in other MMOs : the ones who plays for an image/story.
Visual style will not make you win in pvp or do great in pve. That's more having to do with role playing than with game mechanics. I suspect only people playing a dps jugg/guardian will be people who like the 2 hander style, but those people will a minority and most people will probably jump ship if they only want to play a dps spec.

Ghost_Spectre's Avatar


Ghost_Spectre
12.23.2012 , 06:57 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Krozis View Post
A trend I've noticed over the past several months is that people are moving away from Juggs to Marauders.
I've noticed that pure spec'd Jugg Tanks are becoming a rare quality too. However, I remain true to my Immortal spec'd tank. Unlike others, I use 36/3(Single Saber Mastery)/2(Decimate) for my Jugg. I may not do a lot of damage compared to those who have gone the hybrid route; however, I do have staying power, can stand up too and tie up 3 or 4 opponents while my team mates burn them down or take the objective. I defend my healer to my last breath and a node.

I enjoy playing him and very satisfied with how I have geared (all in augmented (fortitude) WH). I know there will be those who condemn me for speccing out the way I have, but the tree in its entirety gives my Jugg the ability to stand in the middle of a hot warzone taking a pounding, soaking up damage whereas my team mates are not. Thus is the life of a true tank.
Casca Veng Juggernaut Aloysius Madness Sorcerer Ni'Tehn'Do Lethal Operative
Drizzit Watchman Sentinel Cassiopeia Vigilance Guardian Baytor Balance Sage
Kallig Legacy Jedi Convenant Lvl 60 Toons: 7

Sanctioned's Avatar


Sanctioned
12.23.2012 , 08:33 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghost_Spectre View Post
I've noticed that pure spec'd Jugg Tanks are becoming a rare quality too. However, I remain true to my Immortal spec'd tank. Unlike others, I use 36/3(Single Saber Mastery)/2(Decimate) for my Jugg. I may not do a lot of damage compared to those who have gone the hybrid route; however, I do have staying power, can stand up too and tie up 3 or 4 opponents while my team mates burn them down or take the objective. I defend my healer to my last breath and a node.

I enjoy playing him and very satisfied with how I have geared (all in augmented (fortitude) WH). I know there will be those who condemn me for speccing out the way I have, but the tree in its entirety gives my Jugg the ability to stand in the middle of a hot warzone taking a pounding, soaking up damage whereas my team mates are not. Thus is the life of a true tank.
Please school me on this because I don't have a high level jugg and I also took a break.
People are speccing into the tank tree and then complaining not enough dps?


Is the difference vast? and if so, does it not make up the difference in tanking?


I thought the whole point of tanking tree is to absorb damage and aggro/taunt.
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