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Bioware, tanking in pvp is a useless endeavour...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Bioware, tanking in pvp is a useless endeavour...

MasterFeign's Avatar


MasterFeign
12.08.2012 , 04:02 PM | #1
Unless if you're wearing dps gear and tank specced that is!

Alas this is not the case for me. My tank assassin is fully survivor war hero geared out, yet while I do have some survivability, my dps wearing tank specced counterparts are shelling out more damage and as a result of killing things faster, getting more protection as well (through taunts and whatnot). The only difference with my spec and gear is that I can survive slightly longer than them when guarding someone else... ie I'll generally get the most protection in one lifetime according to the endgame pvp stats.

If however, war hero gear for tankassins, encouraged more endurance (than willpower as it is currently), then there may be some viability... But, who needs a shield generator or extra willpower (without crit) when everyone is using tech or force damage (pyro's and rage specced and their respective republic counterparts). How can I defend against them, when I die just as fast as a DPS?

Not only that, but since I am now grinding to get a dps set, I have to start all the way back from battlemaster gear, since I can't trade in survivor gear for stalker gear (for example). Or well at least max out the comms for 1.6.

Even something like tanks being able to mitigate all crit damage at all times would be nice... It sounds OP, but when people's damage gets higher and higher due to gear, it won't make a difference for tanks when force or tech attacks are used meaning they can't be mitigated anyway, even if the tank gets more shield, defense or absorb ratings...

I understand that tanks are supposed to protect their teammates and cause an annoyance to the opposing team, but if a DPS wearing tank spec can do the same job as me, but better... There's something not right...

I don't think damage should be nerfed, but something like being able to mitigate some tech/force attacks could be helpful... Or make the taunts exclusive to tank geared and spec players... Or better yet, rebuff the assassins to their original self heals ability. I mean with the amount of smashes, pyros and stun bubbles the balance would end up being the same anyway.

Ferkles's Avatar


Ferkles
12.08.2012 , 04:26 PM | #2
Well, if you want to do damage then yes. Tanking in pvp shares similarity with pve tanking, in that your main role isn't to cause DPS but to increase the effectiveness of the rest of your team. You will need a healer, and you will need help killing people, but you can't expect to faceroll everyone all the time. Healers I play with prefer it when I play tank spec because they survive a hell of a lot longer than when I can't protect them, and inevitably everyone around the healer stays up longer as well.
Getting a new signature. Eventually~

vimm's Avatar


vimm
12.08.2012 , 04:27 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterFeign View Post
Unless if you're wearing dps gear and tank specced that is!

Alas this is not the case for me. My tank assassin is fully survivor war hero geared out, yet while I do have some survivability, my dps wearing tank specced counterparts are shelling out more damage and as a result of killing things faster, getting more protection as well (through taunts and whatnot). The only difference with my spec and gear is that I can survive slightly longer than them when guarding someone else... ie I'll generally get the most protection in one lifetime according to the endgame pvp stats.

If however, war hero gear for tankassins, encouraged more endurance (than willpower as it is currently), then there may be some viability... But, who needs a shield generator or extra willpower (without crit) when everyone is using tech or force damage (pyro's and rage specced and their respective republic counterparts). How can I defend against them, when I die just as fast as a DPS?

Not only that, but since I am now grinding to get a dps set, I have to start all the way back from battlemaster gear, since I can't trade in survivor gear for stalker gear (for example). Or well at least max out the comms for 1.6.

Even something like tanks being able to mitigate all crit damage at all times would be nice... It sounds OP, but when people's damage gets higher and higher due to gear, it won't make a difference for tanks when force or tech attacks are used meaning they can't be mitigated anyway, even if the tank gets more shield, defense or absorb ratings...

I understand that tanks are supposed to protect their teammates and cause an annoyance to the opposing team, but if a DPS wearing tank spec can do the same job as me, but better... There's something not right...

I don't think damage should be nerfed, but something like being able to mitigate some tech/force attacks could be helpful... Or make the taunts exclusive to tank geared and spec players... Or better yet, rebuff the assassins to their original self heals ability. I mean with the amount of smashes, pyros and stun bubbles the balance would end up being the same anyway.
You need tank spec for tanking? Interesting.
geeR
Phantom of the Operative

Athena-Nike's Avatar


Athena-Nike
12.08.2012 , 04:35 PM | #4
Problem with tanking in PvP are PUGs. Organized teams utilize tanks very well, PUGs waste them. Simple as that. Can't speak to ranked WZ's as I don't play them, but what I've seen (and done) in PUG's and some premades is that PUGs have no idea what to do with their tanks (they don't heal them, they run away from the guy guarding them, etc...)

Ferkles's Avatar


Ferkles
12.08.2012 , 04:37 PM | #5
Ranked WZs the tanks are the most valuable players.
Getting a new signature. Eventually~

MasterFeign's Avatar


MasterFeign
12.08.2012 , 04:47 PM | #6
That's just it though, tank specced dps geared players fare a lot better than tank specced tank geared players, simply because of the damage output and the fact that they too can guard healers and taunt and otherwise mitigate damage anyway.

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
12.08.2012 , 06:08 PM | #7
Welcome in my world. It's why I don't spec tank anymore.
(I don't wan't to hear about using DPS gear in tank spec. I won't be a part of this heresy where I could be quite as "tanky" as far I could call it tanky, while dealing outrageous Projects and Telekinetic Throws)

Riggz's Avatar


Riggz
12.08.2012 , 06:13 PM | #8
Good pure tanks are most valuable player in game

They can change the course of a match easily (w/ a healer)
Also they can keep their whole team alive

Your numbers won't be amazing, people won't notice every thing you do, but you'll win matches for your team. I really appreciate a good tank, there aren't enough of you guys
Urdenot Level 65 Sorc
Urdonught Level 65 Scoundrel
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DegreesOfFreedom's Avatar


DegreesOfFreedom
12.08.2012 , 07:16 PM | #9
Pure tank with a healer = god mode.

SomeJagoff's Avatar


SomeJagoff
12.08.2012 , 07:29 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterFeign View Post
I don't think damage should be nerfed, but something like being able to mitigate some tech/force attacks could be helpful... Or make the taunts exclusive to tank geared and spec players... Or better yet, rebuff the assassins to their original self heals ability. I mean with the amount of smashes, pyros and stun bubbles the balance would end up being the same anyway.
I'd be happy with the original armor rating and no self heals, to be honest. It is a ton easier tanking on my guardian/jugg than it is on my sin/shadow, especially in pvp. In pvp I can take a ton of hits on my guardian/jugg and just keep walking, then leap, push, leap to score in huttball. That's in tank spec with full augmented wh tank gear. On my sin, however, the survivability in pvp is pretty terrible, even with tank gear, it's almost identical to my dps set, which I'm guessing is because the gear tends to increase shield/absorb, but since most attacks in pvp are force/tech and can't be shielded, doesn't keep me alive any better than dps gear, same mitigation from my armor rating. I still usually run with a shield regardless of the rest of my gear on my sin, but switching to full tank gear just nerfs my damage and does nothing for my survivability. So in that respect, I would indeed like bioware to restore the armor rating to sins just so they'd be equal to the other 2 tank classes, but for pvp and increasingly in pve. I didn't have a full pvp tank set before the nerf, so never really got a chance to test it out (was deception/infiltration back then) to compare, but from what others have said on the forums and from other shadows and sins I've talked to, the nerf hurt pure tank spec'd sins with tank gear more than tank spec'd sins with dps gear, not sure if it was the armoring + the self heals that made it more survivable in pvp or just one or the other, all I know is that I usually get wrecked in huttball if I grab the ball wearing tank gear, stay alive for maybe 1 or 2 more seconds in tank gear than dps, if that. Compared to my guardian and jugg, I can basically get permastunned and dps'd by 5 guys for a good 10 seconds, finally get unstunned, pop a medpac, health buff, and the self-heal buff, go back to close to 90% hp, then guardian leap to a teammate, boom, back to 100%, as I very slowly walk towards the goal. As it stands now, I could never ever do that on my sin even if I had super maxed 28k hp like I've seen on some shadows/sins. On that note, when I've gone up against presumably tank spec'd + tank geared sins (24-26k hp) on my 19k hp tank spec'd sin with dps gear, I've melted them down and still had close to half of my health left. So as the armor/self heals stand now, seems pretty useless to have tank gear on a sin/shadow in pvp.

Tanks are important in ranked matches, but just doesn't seem like tank geared sins are, especially when there's the choice to take a pt/vg or jugg/guard. I find myself playing my jugg more and more than my sin in pvp just because it's easier to stay alive without really even trying or breaking a sweat really, especially in huttball. On my jugg, usually think, "cool, once I get the ball, I'm going to score, that's pretty much a certainty and nobody will be able to stop me." on my sin, it's pretty much, "well, let's get the ball and hope somebody is open for a pass before I get permastunned and melted down."
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