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Add a Pug ONLY option on Que's !!!!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Add a Pug ONLY option on Que's !!!!

Veniras's Avatar


Veniras
12.08.2012 , 03:52 PM | #21
It has pretty much clearly been said by devs that neither cross-server nor seperation of queues are coming. Pugs simply have to deal with it. Stop blaming the premades.

Helig's Avatar


Helig
12.08.2012 , 03:56 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Veniras View Post
It has pretty much clearly been said by devs that neither cross-server nor seperation of queues are coming. Pugs simply have to deal with it. Stop blaming the premades.
BW said that there will be no solo queue for rated specifically. Just sayin'.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

Veniras's Avatar


Veniras
12.08.2012 , 05:13 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
BW said that there will be no solo queue for rated specifically. Just sayin'.
They have definately also stated that there will be no solo queue, period!

Quote:
6. Is there any plans to have separate warzones for non-elite Level 50 players.

Jeff: I donít think so. not that I know of. Damion?

Damion: They are planning to adjust the queueing system to pair up elites and other elites and non-elites with non-elites. I think that will come in one of the PvP patches in the future. I donít have a timeframe for that. So we are addressing that problem without using that exact solution.
Personally. I have lost faith in a proper matchmaker. I sincerely doubt it will coded to prevent premades from meeting pugs.

Helig's Avatar


Helig
12.08.2012 , 05:22 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Veniras View Post
Personally. I have lost faith in a proper matchmaker. I sincerely doubt it will coded to prevent premades from meeting pugs.
I truly hope they won't be using Valor, or something as silly as kill/death ratio to measure how "elite" the player is...
K/D came up because I recently read an interview on Darth Hater - it offered some insight on how their metric affects balancing - and they mentioned kill/death ratio.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

criminalheretic's Avatar


criminalheretic
12.08.2012 , 05:25 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
So one (perfectly valid) playstyle must be punished to nourish the other (also perfectly valid) playstyle?

Unless of course *you* want to pull players to play with *you* by *your* rules, essentially forcing *your* playstyle on them.

Premades already take the "option" of a fair fight and, in many cases, enjoyment from other people. Having fun at the expense of other people isn't really a path to a healthy community.
The difference isn't between personal preference or style. The problem is not that you can't solo queue. You can. All day long. You just want to be able to WIN, just as much as someone that actually took steps to win, without taking those same steps.

This is 1957. Johny Unitas is winning with the Baltimore Colts by throwing the ball down the field. You're the guy saying "I don't like throwing the ball that far, let's talk to the commissioner and see if we can get passes of longer than 10 yards made illegal."

They are only "both perfectly valid" playstyles if you are referrencing personal choice. As long as you want to WIN as much as someone that is doing something a certain way, you have to do the same or better. You don't win by seeing someone do something to win, and then asking an authority figure to disallow that behavior.

Edit: So yes, if "my" playstyle and "my" rules are to play with other people who are good and want to win. And "your" playstyle and "your" rules are to play with people who are bad, and don't win. Then Sir, you are entitled to your style, and any other method of personal expression you endeavor to try. What you are NOT entitled to, is WINNING warzones.
What we don't understand, we can make mean anything.
Hyperspace Cannon -> Drooga's -> The Harbinger

Helig's Avatar


Helig
12.08.2012 , 05:33 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by criminalheretic View Post
The difference isn't between personal preference or style. The problem is not that you can't solo queue. You can. All day long. You just want to be able to WIN, just as much as someone that actually took steps to win, without taking those same steps.

This is 1957. Johny Unitas is winning with the Baltimore Colts by throwing the ball down the field. You're the guy saying "I don't like throwing the ball that far, let's talk to the commissioner and see if we can get passes of longer than 10 yards made illegal."

They are only "both perfectly valid" playstyles if you are referrencing personal choice. As long as you want to WIN as much as someone that is doing something a certain way, you have to do the same or better. You don't win by seeing someone do something to win, and then asking an authority figure to disallow that behavior.
As far as sports analogies go, you don't pit players from different leagues. Pugs=junior/amateur, Premades=pro. You don't pit them against one another. You don't pit minifootball players against FIFA players. When I play FIFA, I play FIFA against a team like mine. When I play minifootball, I don't bring my FIFA team and FIFA rules.

Quote:
Edit: So yes, if "my" playstyle and "my" rules are to play with other people who are good and want to win. And "your" playstyle and "your" rules are to play with people who are bad, and don't win. Then Sir, you are entitled to your style, and any other method of personal expression you endeavor to try. What you are NOT entitled to, is WINNING warzones.
Pugging isn't "my" playstyle. But if it's so unfathomable to you to defend someone else's rights and not want to kick them while they're down, then I'll explain it simpler.

Assuming that "I" am a stereotypical pugger, "I" am not entitled to win, indeed. But "I" am entitled to play on a level playing field. Solo queue option is there for a reason. Otherwise only "queue as group" would be available.

Imagine WoW Arenas where 2v2 teams would be pitted against 5v5 teams. By your logic, 5v5 teams are (not really, since this bracket, by the time I was playing, was merely a focusfire fest, and 3v3 was the most tactical and interesting) placing "more" effort into coordination and "winning". Bracketing was there for a reason. 2V2s only fought against 2V2s. 3V3s fought against 3V3s, etc, etc. You queued together with 2 people, you'd be placed against a team of 3 people. Same conditions, same rules.

So I'll say again. Competitive play is competitive (ergo, rated). Casual play is casual. Regular warzones are casual, get it thought your head. Rated is for competition, casual is for fun - for all players to have fun. Rated playing field is relatively equal, as premades only face premades - ideally close to their rating. Casual playing field definitely is not equal, due to premades facing pugs. There should either be a separate reg queue for premades (two random premades get mashed together for the 8-man raid), or reg warzones should be solo-queueable only.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

Veniras's Avatar


Veniras
12.08.2012 , 05:43 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
I truly hope they won't be using Valor, or something as silly as kill/death ratio to measure how "elite" the player is...
I know. I read it too.

I doubt they have the populations to do much about it.

Cross-server is dead -> population issues -> no seperation possible due to queue times -> tuning current matchmaker instead of new matchmaking system. They can't seperate the pugs from the premades and I just can't see how the matchmaker would "measure/equalize" a pug vs a premade.

Eldriq's Avatar


Eldriq
12.08.2012 , 05:46 PM | #28
Lets just get the facts out so that we all are on the same page.

1: No solo que this has been stated by BW you can keep making threads but don't expect it to change.
2: No cross server again this has been stated by BW over and over again see above for action if you can't let it go.
3: No plans for making it smaller group matches at least nothing in the works so if we see this it will be a long ways out "arena, massive maps, etc".
4: They are going to continue to lessen the gear gap between new 50's and old 50's this means that even tho War Hero and Elite War Hero are only differentiated by 3% they are committed to working on it. My guess is raising Recruit again.
5: They are working on better matchmaking for the system what this means is that they will try to make it so that both gear and skill are taken into the matchmaking process. No idea how successful this will be.
6: Rated Warzones are being reworked they can't make up there mind but the system is designed for the uber elite it was never and will never be for the casual player. Think WoW Arena style it is for those that want really competitive play not for a casual like me.
7: TTK they think this is mostly caused by gear gap and see above for steps taken. Personally I have issues with the assumption but hey I am not a developer.

So now that we got the facts what can we take away for it? They are working on it and have decided on a way they think will correct the problem. They are not ignoring the crap ton of threads that have been on this topic or the ad naseum posts. Those that want solo que can only hope that this tactic proves the right way. Those that like premades and have defended can rejoice that the battle has been won for at least 6 months. Personally at this point I think I am part of the majority that no longer cares. I like Swtor and I love pvp I enjoy it sometimes inspite of mechanics and sometimes because of mechanics but this problem is not a deal breaker for me and never was.
El'drik - Sorcerer- War Hero - Harbinger Server Care Bear/White Knight
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth. Friedrich Nietzsche

Helig's Avatar


Helig
12.08.2012 , 05:52 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Veniras View Post
I know. I read it too.

I doubt they have the populations to do much about it.

Cross-server is dead -> population issues -> no seperation possible due to queue times -> tuning current matchmaker instead of new matchmaking system. They can't seperate the pugs from the premades and I just can't see how the matchmaker would "measure/equalize" a pug vs a premade.
Hopefully, it will just shove queued groups to the highest "threat rating".
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

PowerReaper's Avatar


PowerReaper
12.08.2012 , 06:00 PM | #30
This entire argument about premades and pugs is incredible STUPID look this is an MMO people wanna play with there friends, if you can't accept that that's your problem. You have the option to make a group with friends to PvP with (its not rocket science to send a friend a message wanting to pvp). And half the reason Pugs loose to Premades in the first place is because.
- They don't give 2 craps about objectives and just go for kills.
- They are wearing green gear or pve gear (omg omg omg its purple shiny and it has a set bonus11!!! 1337 XD XD XD)
- They have no coordination
If you cannot accept the fact that people wanna play with there friends in a MMO than wow lmao. Like i said before people will complain about anything in this game, ANYTHING.
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