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[XXX] Answers Questions Regarding Statistics

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
[XXX] Answers Questions Regarding Statistics
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

MiaRB's Avatar


MiaRB
12.04.2012 , 02:49 PM | #11
all you "experts" do understand that kill/death ratio isnt the only metric they look at in PVP, right?
can't wait for this game to come out!

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
12.04.2012 , 02:53 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by MiaRB View Post
all you "experts" do understand that kill/death ratio isnt the only metric they look at in PVP, right?
You understand that just the fact that they used that as an example goes to show how clueless they can be about PvP and the metrics... right?

I'm not going to even go into the many problems about creating "balance" in MMO PvP... but it surely can NOT be done with mathematics.

They need to either play the game... of listen to an intelligent player base or G T F O.

criminalheretic's Avatar


criminalheretic
12.04.2012 , 02:56 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
part of the problem with Merc/Commando right now is that just about everyone has given up playing it. the only people still playing Merc/Commando are the cream of the crop; they have usually been playing the longest, have fully optimized their gear, and have developed the skill needed to compete in unranked (ranke if they have a good team) warzones despite their disadvantages.

as such, whatever metrics bioware has for Merc/Commando is from a significantly smaller sample size than say Mara/Sents. while there is a large population of Mara/Sents to dilute the metrics, it is not a true representation of the class's ability when used by a skilled player.

lets say that the top 5% of Marauders average >= 400k damage a warzone. the bottom 50% average <200k per wz. because the majority of the sample is <200k, the overall population average will be massively diluted and not truly represent the capabilities of the class.

the Mercs that still remain are, for the most part, the best at their class. they are the top 5% of the original Merc population.

if bioware wants to develop *real* metrics, they would use equal sample sizes of each AC, rather than look at only overall averages. so if there are only 500 Merc/Commandos to get metrics from, they would not be compared to 5,000 Mara/Sents
It is in this way that FoTM re-rollers actually stop a class from being nerfed...

But then BW buffed Focus, and when everyone dumped Watchman and Combat for it, they answered by nerfing Watchman so... I'm pretty sure most of their class changes are just either random, or specifically designed to make people mad. I'm sure they sit around their office trash talking each other and joking about who's going to win the office pool when we get to the 1000th Buff Commando/Nerf Marauder-PT thread.
What we don't understand, we can make mean anything.
Hyperspace Cannon -> Drooga's -> The Harbinger

criminalheretic's Avatar


criminalheretic
12.04.2012 , 02:58 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by MiaRB View Post
all you "experts" do understand that kill/death ratio isnt the only metric they look at in PVP, right?
Yes, it's just that more importantly we understand that KDR might be the WORST, or at least the most useless, metric to look at.
What we don't understand, we can make mean anything.
Hyperspace Cannon -> Drooga's -> The Harbinger

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
12.04.2012 , 03:01 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by criminalheretic View Post
But then BW buffed Focus, and when everyone dumped Watchman and Combat for it, they answered by nerfing Watchman so.
Both the rage buff and annihilation nerf were PvE related changes... which is just another part of the problem.

And why I think the idea of PvE and PvP trees being separated would help this game a lot.

islander's Avatar


islander
12.04.2012 , 03:04 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
Both the rage buff and annihilation nerf were PvE related changes... which is just another part of the problem.

And why I think the idea of PvE and PvP trees being separated would help this game a lot.
Absolutely. Just like WoW failed to do this, refusing to have seperate effects for PvP and PvE ultimately hurt the game. Any game.
Gėllies Erimosi, Imperial Deadeye
<Hex> Prophecy of the Five

MiaRB's Avatar


MiaRB
12.04.2012 , 03:16 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
You understand that just the fact that they used that as an example goes to show how clueless they can be about PvP and the metrics... right?

I'm not going to even go into the many problems about creating "balance" in MMO PvP... but it surely can NOT be done with mathematics.

They need to either play the game... of listen to an intelligent player base or G T F O.
i understand this thread and threads like it are great examples why devs should never actually say anything to players.

they do play the game. listening only to players is the worst thing any dev can do. what they do is listen to player feedback, play the game themselves, look at the real data of what is happening in the game... they base adjustmets changes to the game on all those factors. balance isnt done with only mathematics, but is surely cant be done at all( or even close ) without mathematics.

anyway, give me a link to the MMO you created so i can see how good a job you did with balancing the game.
can't wait for this game to come out!

cycao's Avatar


cycao
12.04.2012 , 03:20 PM | #18
This actually does not surprise me one bit. Until they have a way to measure player skill, using a kdr I guess seems logical?

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.04.2012 , 03:26 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
This actually does not surprise me one bit. Until they have a way to measure player skill, using a kdr I guess seems logical?
no. its probably the least representative metric of skill.


if bioware was smart, they would select a member of the community to represent each AC and their complaints//suggestions. any of you that played SWG would know about player Senators, this is the same idea. it would provide the community with a direct line of communication to the devs, but would also act as a filter for all of the stupid crap that ends up on the forums
Da'ny - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

AMKSED's Avatar


AMKSED
12.04.2012 , 03:29 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
no. its probably the least representative metric of skill.


if bioware was smart, they would select a member of the community to represent each AC and their complaints//suggestions. any of you that played SWG would know about player Senators, this is the same idea. it would provide the community with a direct line of communication to the devs, but would also act as a filter for all of the stupid crap that ends up on the forums
As long as the people they elected weren't complete morons.