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Credits for Money - Is This Intended?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Customer Service
Credits for Money - Is This Intended?

Nellsterzzz's Avatar


Nellsterzzz
12.04.2012 , 10:21 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by jonmcooper View Post
No, this is not another gold spammer post. That is a separate issue.

With the way the Cartel Coin Market is currently set up, players can buy cartel coins, redeem them for items, and then sell the items on the GTN or by other means after waiting a day. And I'm not talking measly amounts here... some of those items go for A LOT of credits.

This is absolutely a pay to win method, as top end PVE gear, as well as other items, can be bought with credits due to the way crafting/REing works, especially with the " learn schematics from crafted items" exploit Bioware doesn't care about.

So I would like to get an answer from Bioware/Devs. Is this intended? Is players being able to spend real money to acquire credits part of your plan?
A pay to win method implies that you in order to be successful in the game you have to pay real money or can pay real money to receive the best gear. Seeing as NONE of the cartel items are best in slot PVE gear it is not Pay to Win. If people want to spend their cartel coins in order to make credits by all means let them, but please, do not mistake that for pay to win. And regarding the "exploit," if the armoring/mod/enhancement would say no error message when trying to R/E and you wouldn't have to put it in a piece of gear to then receive the 20% chance of R/E would it stil be an exploit? No of course not. This allows end-game crafting to not be completely useless as some professions are. There is nothing wrong with how everything is currently IMO.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
12.04.2012 , 10:24 AM | #22
Allowing players to free market trade/sell cartel items is not Pay-2-win no matter how much to try to conflate it.

There is nothing for sale in the cartel market that is top end end-game gear capable... which IS the definition of pay to win: the ability to buy the best gear in the game to bypass leveling/raiding to compete with the best geared players in game. It cannot be done. The best gear must be earned in game through non-credit means.

As to the weak argument that people with real money can buy and market cartel items to convert to credits...... you do realize there are many many veterans in this game that are sitting on tens of millions of credits... right? So you are either already wealthy in this game or you are not. No matter how much you buy in the cartel market and resell, you are not going to compete with the wealthy veterans in this MMO... ever.

Further....as a person who plays (buys low, sells high) the GTN market I am quite familiar with cartel item sales on the GTN and the fact of the matter is that the effective conversion rate of cartel coins to credits is pretty low. Why? Because for things that ayone can buy on the cartel market... the resale prices in the GTN are pretty low. The only things in the market that carry high prices from the market are super rare drops from cartel packs... and there is no effective way to convert cartel packs to credits efficiently. As soon as someone works out an angle (like selling cartel packs directly on the GTN)... a million others pile on and undercut each other.

All that said... the one feature that selling cartel items on the GTN can achieve is it can enble a brand new player a way to generate some initial starting capital to get their new characters up and running in game (if they are a subscriber of course). But the leverage here is pretty modest.... and there is no way you can claim a new player starting brand new characters is working under any Pay-2-Win model.

Allowing resale of cartel items in the GTN is however good for the economy and for the wider player base. WHY? Because it allows players who do not want to buy cartel coins the ability to buy items with credits instead. They can earn credits in game and then convert those credits into items they desire and never go near the cartel market if they do not want to.
Forum disputatio ------> est completum ineptias.

Marunette's Avatar


Marunette
12.04.2012 , 10:26 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by jonmcooper View Post
No, this is not another gold spammer post. That is a separate issue.

With the way the Cartel Coin Market is currently set up, players can buy cartel coins, redeem them for items, and then sell the items on the GTN or by other means after waiting a day. And I'm not talking measly amounts here... some of those items go for A LOT of credits.

This is absolutely a pay to win method, as top end PVE gear, as well as other items, can be bought with credits due to the way crafting/REing works, especially with the " learn schematics from crafted items" exploit Bioware doesn't care about.

So I would like to get an answer from Bioware/Devs. Is this intended? Is players being able to spend real money to acquire credits part of your plan?
First of all... learning schematics from crafted items is NOT an exploit. It's part of the game mechanics. Please, just _deal with it_. The chance is 20%, so what you're suggesting is, to be honest, ludicrous and directed only at the top-end high-levels out there.

Now... as to, for instance someone who started over on a brand new server, with lower-level characters, I can guarantee that the money made from the few Cartel Market items I sold was NOT used to buy 63:s and kit out as you pointed out. It sounds to me like you haven't been able to grind or play the in-game GTN market to make as much money as you wish and are now taking it out on those who have gained a new way to make more. Selfish, and if you pardon me for saying this, rather silly logic.

The most important thing is that the game is once again being played by more people. Which leads to new subscriptions, and purchases of the Cartel Coins, which in turn is making money for EA/BioWare so they don't have to close the whole shebang down. Should things be changed just because you're angry at so-called exploiters and rich toons? No. Definitely not. Sorry.
Sith Lady of the Sneers.
Cross the streams at your own risk.

translucentwolf's Avatar


translucentwolf
12.04.2012 , 10:27 AM | #24
Actually, the nearest to 'pay to win' coming from the market is the +41 Endurance Crystal. Yes, the cheap one. The one you can now buy on the gtn for 80k or less.

And, even that isn't pay to win. It's just a ~500 extra hitpoints.

The pvp crystal is a 2% buff in pvp. Not game breaking by any means.

The rest of the stuff is just fluff you could get elsewhere anyway.
That which does not kill you merely postpones the inevitable.

Avaya's Avatar


Avaya
12.04.2012 , 10:30 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by dunphyr View Post
1. People with more money in their pockets have to work less hours.
2. People that work less hours can play this game more.
3. People that can play this game more can spend more time making money and doing raids to get better gear.

THEREFORE, people with more money can get better gear. This is pay to win, so this game should be cancelled.
1 = yes if you have a job you make money.. and can buy cartels tuff
2= Yes if i do not have a job i can raid and get gear with my friends. The raiding gear being the best in the game.
3 = The money made by the people who buy the cartels stuff, can buy the raiding gear mods that is the best in the game.
4 = The raiders who made the mods now have the cartel peoples money and can do there upgrades.
5 = No one set of people have better gear then the other... working as intended.

--
TLDR.
PTW is a model were the best gear in the game is ONLY available to the people paying extra. Please know what it is you are ************ about before you post.
"My life for yours"

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
12.04.2012 , 10:34 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by translucentwolf View Post
Actually, the nearest to 'pay to win' coming from the market is the +41 Endurance Crystal. Yes, the cheap one. The one you can now buy on the gtn for 80k or less.

And, even that isn't pay to win. It's just a ~500 extra hitpoints.

The pvp crystal is a 2% buff in pvp. Not game breaking by any means.

The rest of the stuff is just fluff you could get elsewhere anyway.
Agreed. AND they were very open about the level 10 crystals on the PTS before they went live. They explained their reasoning and thought process, and did it well. The level 10 crystals are a nice little perk for people (and anyone can get them off the GTN), but is not pay to win.
Forum disputatio ------> est completum ineptias.

Jenovan's Avatar


Jenovan
12.04.2012 , 10:41 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by dunphyr View Post
1. People with more money in their pockets have to work less hours.
2. People that work less hours can play this game more.
3. People that can play this game more can spend more time making money and doing raids to get better gear.

THEREFORE, people with more money can get better gear. This is pay to win, so this game should be cancelled.
I actually had to read this twice. I like your style, sir.

Given the vast amounts of credits people can make in this game without touching the Cartel Market, and the rather low value (and dropping) of most cartel items, I don't see an issue here. Besides which, as someone pointed out -- people aren't (even indirectly) paying for uber gear no one else can get -- they're shortcutting the grind time to get the same gear (time spent either earning credits or running FPs and Ops). And time, of course, is money.
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Dchsknight's Avatar


Dchsknight
12.04.2012 , 10:45 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by POPsi View Post
without sarcasm, it's exactly working as intended. RL richer players profit from in-game by selling the stuff. In-game rich ppl profit by buying it. EAWare profits the most, but the above mentioned 2 category does not care. And who is left with nothing? The "poor" category players as usual
With Dailies and such, there is no reason for a player to be poor, when the game it self throws credits at people... IF people are complaining about high credit prices for non-game changing things like the throne or something, then they are just showing that they are lazy and unwilling to go do a few days worth of dailies to get the credits to get them. OR they are too prideful to stop getting their mcdonalds or starbucks to afford a few packs and try their luck at getting the said item like everyone else.

You either pay for it with credits and guarantee you get the item or gamble for it like everybody else.

Dchsknight's Avatar


Dchsknight
12.04.2012 , 10:48 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Agreed. AND they were very open about the level 10 crystals on the PTS before they went live. They explained their reasoning and thought process, and did it well. The level 10 crystals are a nice little perk for people (and anyone can get them off the GTN), but is not pay to win.
Yeah I got one of these crystals... It is a nice HP boost, but I am still dying as I level up... The only thing it really did... made my gun shoot cool purple laser beams as I IRL go PEW PEW PEW every time I fire my Assault cannon with my commando.


AND yes I really do go PEW PEW PEW in real life as I fire my cannon... It makes me feel important.

Marunette's Avatar


Marunette
12.04.2012 , 11:32 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Dchsknight View Post
AND yes I really do go PEW PEW PEW in real life as I fire my cannon... It makes me feel important.
Of course. The same way it's highly enjoyable to pull off a group-of-normals mowing Force Storm only accompanied with the appropriate maniacal cackle.
Sith Lady of the Sneers.
Cross the streams at your own risk.