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Where to upgrade my Jugg from here?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Where to upgrade my Jugg from here?

Xtrema's Avatar


Xtrema
12.03.2012 , 11:17 PM | #1
Hi, I have a Jugg tank in 19/22 hybrid spec, currently in mostly 61's with some 63's. My buffed stats right now are as follows:

28.66% Defense
50.80% Shield
50.17% Absorb

My guild is a little behind right now and doesn't really run HM TFB yet, so I usually have to pug it or find crafters to get BiS 63's. I've been holding several stabilizers now but want to know what to do to improve my tank next. Do I need to move some shield/absorb out for more defense? Swap some mods for B versions for the endo? I remember reading the thread over at mmomechanics that says stacking defense is best for juggs, but I just dont like the spikiness it ends up doing, so to be nice to my healers I've been getting relatively high shield/absorb.

I realize this is more of an open ended question as there doesn't seem to be a definitive 'best' way to gear any tank, but just wanted to get some opinions preferably of those that are working on the latest end game or are already farming it. If it helps here's my setup:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...3-f967638286f5
Vegeta - Nadd's Sarcophagus

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
12.04.2012 , 10:46 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Xtrema View Post
Hi, I have a Jugg tank in 19/22 hybrid spec, currently in mostly 61's with some 63's. My buffed stats right now are as follows:

28.66% Defense
50.80% Shield
50.17% Absorb

My guild is a little behind right now and doesn't really run HM TFB yet, so I usually have to pug it or find crafters to get BiS 63's. I've been holding several stabilizers now but want to know what to do to improve my tank next. Do I need to move some shield/absorb out for more defense? Swap some mods for B versions for the endo? I remember reading the thread over at mmomechanics that says stacking defense is best for juggs, but I just dont like the spikiness it ends up doing, so to be nice to my healers I've been getting relatively high shield/absorb.

I realize this is more of an open ended question as there doesn't seem to be a definitive 'best' way to gear any tank, but just wanted to get some opinions preferably of those that are working on the latest end game or are already farming it. If it helps here's my setup:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...3-f967638286f5
I have 30.1k hp with 30% def 52% shield with 42% absorb. The additional defense ratings provided you use your Blate Storm + Riposte often will provide pretty handy defense rating that will work superior in contrast to having 10% more absorb. Do not forget that Absorb is also tied to Shield, first you need to shield the ability and then there is a % chance to absorb the said ability. It's just not as good as Defense Rating for Juggs. You can stack as much as 35% def rating, and you will still have about 51% shield with 40% ish absorb and you will do just fine in around 31k hp.

But I believe there is not a single way to do things, 25 50 50 is still viable -- if you have already achieved 25 50 50 and do not want to deviate from it much try t stack up on additional defense to bring it closer to 30% mark. Good luck!!!
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

cisme's Avatar


cisme
12.04.2012 , 11:08 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Ephesia View Post
Do not forget that Absorb is also tied to Shield, first you need to shield the ability and then there is a % chance to absorb the said ability.
I'm sorry but what? That is not at all how shield and absorb work. Shield refers to the %chance of shielding an attack and absorb is the amount of that attack that will be absorbed.
So if you have 50 shield and 60 absorbtion then you have a 50% chance of reducing the damage of the attack by 60%

Xtrema's Avatar


Xtrema
12.05.2012 , 04:19 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Ephesia View Post
I have 30.1k hp with 30% def 52% shield with 42% absorb. The additional defense ratings provided you use your Blate Storm + Riposte often will provide pretty handy defense rating that will work superior in contrast to having 10% more absorb. Do not forget that Absorb is also tied to Shield, first you need to shield the ability and then there is a % chance to absorb the said ability. It's just not as good as Defense Rating for Juggs. You can stack as much as 35% def rating, and you will still have about 51% shield with 40% ish absorb and you will do just fine in around 31k hp.

But I believe there is not a single way to do things, 25 50 50 is still viable -- if you have already achieved 25 50 50 and do not want to deviate from it much try t stack up on additional defense to bring it closer to 30% mark. Good luck!!!
Thanks! wow 30k hp, thats super high for juggs, thats more like sin hp pool isnt it? Is your hp spiky at all with 52/42 shield/absorb? Might actually give that a try, with riposte and quake thats a pretty decent chance of complete avoidance :P

Quote: Originally Posted by cisme View Post
I'm sorry but what? That is not at all how shield and absorb work. Shield refers to the %chance of shielding an attack and absorb is the amount of that attack that will be absorbed.
So if you have 50 shield and 60 absorbtion then you have a 50% chance of reducing the damage of the attack by 60%
To my knowledge ephesia is correct. It first rolls accuracy vs defense, if that fails then it rolls shield chance, IF your shield succeeds then you absorb the % you have. There's also tons of other factors like crit etc that fits into the first roll I believe, but dont remember the specifics. There's data for it all over you can just google it
Vegeta - Nadd's Sarcophagus

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
12.05.2012 , 06:37 AM | #5
I would like to point out that my system is used and approved by the guild which has the highest PVE achievement in the game, they have taken meticulous calculations for the benefit of the community and given their achievements I can assure you that my build is not a wrong one. However I am not saying it is the ONLY way to go at it, a lot of players prefer a 25% 50% 50% approach and I think that too is just fine. It's probably possible to get it 30 50 50 with 63 gear.
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
12.05.2012 , 07:38 AM | #6
Lol, If I get a queue with a 30k tank I just laugh and leave. At least you have the defensive stats to support it but most 26k+ tanks have rubbish defensive stats and just melt so healing them is a waste of time and resources.

My aim for Jugg is 30%, 50%, 50%.
The Last Centurions Derpyn - Sage / Toughen - Vanguard / Bluffin - Scoundrel / Roughen - Sentinel
Filthy-rich - Juggernaut / Timberwulf - Sniper / Ironwill - Mercenary / Ahuizotl - Assassin

BiS Relics for Healers PvE/PvP

cisme's Avatar


cisme
12.05.2012 , 08:46 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Xtrema View Post
To my knowledge ephesia is correct. It first rolls accuracy vs defense, if that fails then it rolls shield chance, IF your shield succeeds then you absorb the % you have. There's also tons of other factors like crit etc that fits into the first roll I believe, but dont remember the specifics. There's data for it all over you can just google it
Read what he said. I was saying the same thing as you and he was saying that there is a %chance that an ability will be shielded and if it is shielded there is a %chance it will be absorbed and do no damage

steave's Avatar


steave
12.05.2012 , 09:15 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Xtrema View Post
Thanks! wow 30k hp, thats super high for juggs, thats more like sin hp pool isnt it?
Yeah, it's TOO high.
If your HP is that high, it means your mitigation stats are much lower then they could have been. He should be dropping endurance to stack more absorb until he hits at least 50% for it, after that the diminishing returns are pretty heavy so it can be argued, but personally I'd still continue stacking as much mitigation as possible, even if the return is very small. Very little extra mitigation is more then no extra miigation, and mitigating that damage is the entire reason for having the tank there.


Shield/absorb works exactly like Cisme described it, you have <shield chance>% chance to reduce the damage done to you by <absorb>%. It's very easy to tell if you just have a look at your logs, you'll find some misses, somehigh hits and some low hits from the same ability, and if you do the math on the low hits, you'll find that they're <absorb>% lower then the high ones.

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
12.05.2012 , 11:44 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by cisme View Post
Read what he said. I was saying the same thing as you and he was saying that there is a %chance that an ability will be shielded and if it is shielded there is a %chance it will be absorbed and do no damage
You are definitely not saying the same thing as he did, but I might be wrong I won't argue about something I am not 100% sure.

About 30k HP OMGZORZ too high you suck argument, if you have 30k HP like I do and you have below 30% def, below 50% shield and below about 40% absorb yeah good point. Otherwise there is nothing really wrong with having more hp. If I'm close to 63 naturally I'll have health like that. Check the best guilds in the game you will see that their guardian tanks, like me, have 30k'ish HP.
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

steave's Avatar


steave
12.05.2012 , 12:33 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Ephesia View Post
About 30k HP OMGZORZ too high you suck argument, if you have 30k HP like I do and you have below 30% def, below 50% shield and below about 40% absorb yeah good point. Otherwise there is nothing really wrong with having more hp. If I'm close to 63 naturally I'll have health like that. Check the best guilds in the game you will see that their guardian tanks, like me, have 30k'ish HP.
No, that absorb is still too low. Get it to 50% and you may have a point (even though I still prefer even more mitigation after that, even though it's tiny), but 40% means you're only shielding 20% of the damage that gets trough your defense rather than 25% like you do with 50% absorb. That's 6.7% more damage taken.
Our jugg tanks are at about 27.5k HP with 30/50/50, and IMO even that is a bit high since looking at their gear, I could squeeze out yet another few % damage reduction by dropping an another 2k or so HP.