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[Underworld Trading] Underworld Trading, the Broken Crew Skill

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
[Underworld Trading] Underworld Trading, the Broken Crew Skill

uziforyou's Avatar


uziforyou
12.02.2012 , 07:02 PM | #1
I'm pretty sure I've seen a thread on this before but couldn't find it in a search.

Anyway, aren't the missions that are available to send crew members on supposed to be randomly generated as to what type they are; fabrics, metals or companion gifts (although I know companion gifts are favored by some percentage)?

There's no way they can be random. I'm sure like a lot of players I'm looking mostly for metal missions for mandalorian iron. Seriously, if I'm lucky I'll one metal mission between two separate toons that have underworld trading. I can't count the number of times that there's nothing but 6 companion gift missions. I've even logged in and out as much as dozen times and still get no metal missions!

Seriously Bioware? Working as intended?
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pisceanone's Avatar


pisceanone
12.02.2012 , 10:38 PM | #2
I agree totally, this has been my observation as well, with 3 characters with UT, I often only find 1 in 3 that has a metal mission to run. When I am feeling like a little self torture, I run gift missions and as soon as one finishes, I sometimes get a metal mission in the remix.
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psandak's Avatar


psandak
12.03.2012 , 10:22 AM | #3
It may be anecdotal "superstitious nonsense" but what I have found is that if I send companions on all mission types (whether I need them at that moment or not), I tend to get the missions I do want more often.

Furthermore, I have also found that if I do get a string of one type and I do them all, eventually the string ends and for a while I get none of that type. As a matter of fact, there was a point where all I wanted was companion gifts from UT (I was trying to increase companion affection for an alt) and I did nothing but gift missions and then one time I actually got ALL fabrics and metals missions; zero gift missions. Of course I took full advantage of it .

The adage, "a watched pot never boils" rings true here. If all you want is metals you are not going to get enough metals missions to satisfy your need. All the tricks of relogging and whatnot only add to the frustration. IMO, you need to do missions that you do not need the results from right away in order to get what you do want. You can then either sell what you do not need so you can buy what you do need, or simply stockpile those materials until you do need them.

Dragoon-'s Avatar


Dragoon-
12.04.2012 , 01:35 PM | #4
This is getting so ridicules. Here an excerpt of the current missions list available to me.
I leave this without further comments and just let the facts speak for themselves.

Underworld Trading: Mission Level 49-50

A Better life - Rich Yield: Rank 5 Companion Gifts
Vital Intel - Rich Yield: Rank 5 Companion Gifts
Planting the Seeds - Rich Yield: Rank 5 Companion Gifts
Irreplaceable Parts - Rich Yield: Rank 5 Companion Gifts
Match Fixing - Rich Yield: Rank 5 Companion Gifts


Mission Level 41-48

One-Sided Relationships - Abundant Yield: Rank 5 Companion Gifts
Secret Vices - Rich Yield: Rank 5 Companion Gifts
Uplifting Spirits - Rich Yield: Rank 5 Companion Gifts
Hide in Plain Sight - Bountiful Yield: Grade 5 Luxury Fabrics
Arbitration - Bountiful Yield: Grade 5 Luxury Fabrics


Mission Level 33-40

An Unhealthy Load - Rich Yield: Rank 4 Companion Gifts
A Tiny Cut - Abundant Yield: Grade 4 Luxury Fabrics
Rebel Ordnance - Abundant Yield: Rank 4 Companion Gifts
The Spice of Life - Bountiful Yield: Rank 4 Companion Gifts
Double Exposure - Rich Yield: Grade 4 Luxury Fabrics


Mission Level 25-32

Elusive Prey - Moderate Yield: Rank 3 Companion Gifts
Paid Protection - Moderate Yield: Grade 3 Luxury Fabrics
Supplying the Resistance - Moderate Yield: Grade 3 Underworld Metals
Neimoidian Cowardice - Moderate Yield: Rank 3 Companion Gifts
Shady Science - Bountiful Yield: Rank 3 Companion Gifts


Mission Level 17-24

No Hutts Allowed - Bountiful Yield: Rank 2 Companion Gifts
A New Market - Abundant Yield: Rank 2 Companion Gifts
One Last Job - Abundant Yield: Grade 2 Underworld Metals
Sord Trunnel - Rich Yield: Rank 2 Companion Gifts
Crackdown - Bountiful Yield: Rank 2 Companion Gifts


Mission Level 10-16

Shady Deal - Rich Yield: Rank 1 Companion Gifts
Highest Bidder - Moderate Yield: Rank 1 Companion Gifts
Overthrowing the Tyrants - Bountiful Yield: Rank 2 Companion Gifts
A Slight Lean - Abundant Yield: Grade 1 Underworld Metals
Disruptive Behavior - Bountiful Yield: Grade 1 Luxury Fabrics


In total 30 Missions.
21 Companion Gifts Missions (8 Rank 5 Mission, 3 Rank 4 Mission, 3 Rank 3 Mission, 4 Rank 2 Mission, 3 Rank 1 Missions)
6 Luxury Fabric Missions (2 Grade 5 Mission, 2 Grade 4 Mission, 1 Grade 3 Mission, 1 Grade 1 Mission)
3 Underworld Metals Missions ( 1 Moderate Grade 3 Mission, 1 Abundant Grade 2 Mission, 1 Abundant Grade 1 Mission)
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wingsofcover's Avatar


wingsofcover
12.04.2012 , 01:52 PM | #5
I get the same problem with Grade 6 Diplomacy for medical items. With that, it's even worse, because it ONLY has companion gifts (light/dark) and medical supplies (light/dark)

I do agree about metal missions being more uncommon than they should be, especially at Grade 3
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psandak's Avatar


psandak
12.05.2012 , 10:04 AM | #6
One more thing...

I believe you are mistaking random for even. randomness does not equate to evenness. Never has never will. But don't worry, it's human nature; people see clustering and immediately think it must be intentional when in fact it is not.

Dragoon,

Post a thousand sets and you might convince me.

finelinebob's Avatar


finelinebob
12.06.2012 , 02:03 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Dragoon- View Post
This is getting so ridicules. Here an excerpt of the current missions list available to me.
I leave this without further comments and just let the facts speak for themselves.
Yes, they do speak for themselves, but you are mistaken if you think those results are saying what you want them to say.

Whether the system is broken, with respect to the random selection of missions from a list of what exists for each grade mission, would require a lot of measurements. Something approaching 1,000 independent measurements would be a good start. There is a problem here, though: if there are 10 possible missions of a particular grade, the first choice has a 1 in 10 chance of any particular mission being selected. Since we can't get the same mission running more than once concurrently, the second mission to be selected would have a slightly better chance -- 1 in 9. The third, 1 in 8, and so on. The selection of missions in the same grade is not an independent process ... but to be honest, I don't think it matters much and don't know enough about "combinatorial statistics" to say for certain if it would.

There is a different issue, though, one that is most certainly intentional and one that deliberately enters bias into the system by design. The issue is this: the distribution of Companion Gift, Underworld Metals and Luxury Fabric missions, including the yield of the missions, is not even close to being equivalent across grades, even across factions in one particular case.

Let me give this some numbers. It is safe to say that in general, each grade of missions has a ratio of Gifts to Fabrics to Metals of roughly 2:1:1. Please note the use of "in general " and "roughly" -- this is not precisely true for both factions or within a faction for all grades. Now consider that two of the three Crafting skills that require Underworld Trading only need Underworld Metals. The deck is stacked roughly 3 to 1 against you getting a Underworld Metals mission. Even for Synthweaving, these crafters need metals for Heavy and Medium armor and fabrics for only Light armor, so they are getting screwed by design if they need metals.

At least, as long as the system randomly distributes missions these biases will hold true.

As it is, I'm trying to collect about 100 randomizations of my UWT list of missions -- again, they aren't really independent within a grade, but between grades and randomizations they are independent measures -- which would mean a total of 3,000 data points (100 measures of six grades of missions taking five missions at a time). It's god-awful boring, but I hope to be done with it soon. There are some simple statistical tests that can be run that will show if mission distribution is biased or random. Using these, I hope we can get an answer on just how non-random our random system may actually be ... again, by BioWare's design.
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RaptorClown's Avatar


RaptorClown
12.06.2012 , 02:13 AM | #8
simple solution - buy 340mission from GTN D:

DawnAskham's Avatar


DawnAskham
12.06.2012 , 08:09 AM | #9
UWT is totally unbalanced, even if the distribution of available missions is truly random.

UWT metals are used to create all non-force armor along with force heavy and medium armor, all mods, all armorings, all earpieces, all ship parts, all droid parts, and all grenades.

UWT cloths are used only to create force light armor.

MonkeyCannon's Avatar


MonkeyCannon
12.06.2012 , 08:28 AM | #10
Simple solution, load a new instance. I speak from experience with UT, TH, and Diplo at 400. Do I ever have a problem? No.

This is what I do. I look and run the missions I want and then atleast 2 of what I don't want. Then I immediately load an instance (leave or enter the ship for example) and look at the missions again. If none available, I load a new instance. So far the most I've had to reload in a row was 10. 10 seems like a lot but consider that an Abundant+ mission for mats is around an hour, 10 reloads is nothing. Anyway, when I do get missions I want, I drop the bad missions my companions are doing for those. Dropping missions means you simply get the mission cost back, so you don't actually lose anything.

The reason I run bad missions in the first place is to take them off the list of possible missions. You can't have a companion run a mission that another companion is currently running, so taking as many bad missions off the list means a greater chance that a good mission will pop up.

Is it annoying that I have to trick the game like this? Yes and no. Yes because I of course want what I want right now when I want it, but no because I understand why the crafting system is set up that way and somewhat agree with it.

If you want to do this, it's good to know how many Mod, Abund, Bount, and Rich yield missions there are of a specific reward. For example, in both Bioanalysis and Archaeology, there is only 1 abundant compound and 1 abundant power crystal mission at grade 6. So reloading for more is stupid.