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Kaggath Series: Darth Traya vs Revan

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Darth Traya vs Revan

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.27.2012 , 01:10 PM | #1
“No game of dejarik can be won without pawns...”

Round 3: Darth Traya vs Revan

Welcome to the third instalment of the ‘Kaggath vs Series’ in which I’ll be pitting the power bases of iconic Star Wars characters against each other.

In the last battle, Prince Xizor vs Tyber Zann, after a drawn out conflict of bribes, backstabbing and orbital bombardment – the prince emerged as the victor thanks to his expansive intelligence network and bottomless pockets. But on to round three.

For all those of you aren’t aware, the Kaggath is an ancient rite of the Sith, ‘one part duel, one part large-scale dejarik-match’. The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. The Kaggath is no simply lightsaber duel, although it can come down to one, and the arena can be anywhere: a planet, star system or the entire galaxy.

Before we begin, let’s just go over the ground rules again:

  • The arena: the known galaxy.
  • No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base, or other prominent powers. This excludes allies of the era, i.e. Darth Sion & Nihilus, Meetra Surik, Alek/Malak, Saul Karath.
  • No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument they are non-existent.
  • No surrender, fight to the death!
  • No superweapons, e.g. Mass Shadow Generator, Darth Nihilus.
  • Technology level is universal: blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. is all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power.
  • Use your imagination: obviously these powers existed in different time frames, but let’s just pretend.

So, the combatants: the master vs the student. Darth Traya was a master manipulator, highly knowledgeable and skilled with a lightsaber and the Force. Revan was a talented strategist, and all round exceptional Jedi. (Not Sith, this is pre-Jedi Civil War)

Traya has the forces of Darth Revan’s remnant Empire, including a legion of deadly assassins. And Revan has the forces of the Galactic Republic and the Revanchists (may I make clear that the Revan in this battle is the Revan of the Mandalorian Wars – and his power base is all that he had command over during the said conflict) But who would win? Has the student surpassed the master or is he very much still the learner?

Let the Kaggath begin!

Victor: Darth Traya

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.27.2012 , 01:31 PM | #2
Ah it has finally arrived! *stretches his debate muscles in preperation*

Here we go!

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.27.2012 , 01:36 PM | #3
Darth Traya wins. Revan's biggest advantage in this battle is the Republic fleet. But just like we saw with the Harbinger, Sith Assassins can neutralize that advantage with ease. This forces Revan to mobilize troops for an attack on Malachor V, where they would be utterly crushed. Whether the Jedi there are killed by the Sith or turned by Malachor's dark energies, Revan would lose. And then, Traya turns Revan to the Dark Side.

Traya wins a sound victory.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.27.2012 , 01:52 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
“No game of dejarik can be won without pawns...”

Round 3: Darth Traya vs Revan

Welcome to the third instalment of the ‘Kaggath vs Series’ in which I’ll be pitting the power bases of iconic Star Wars characters against each other.

In the last battle, Prince Xizor vs Tyber Zann, after a drawn out conflict of bribes, backstabbing and orbital bombardment – the prince emerged as the victor thanks to his expansive intelligence network and bottomless pockets. But on to round three.

For all those of you aren’t aware, the Kaggath is an ancient rite of the Sith, ‘one part duel, one part large-scale dejarik-match’. The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. The Kaggath is no simply lightsaber duel, although it can come down to one, and the arena can be anywhere: a planet, star system or the entire galaxy.

Before we begin, let’s just go over the ground rules again:

  • The arena: the known galaxy.
  • No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base, or other prominent powers. This excludes allies of the era, i.e. Darth Sion & Nihilus, Meetra Surik, Alek/Malak, Saul Karath.
  • No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument they are non-existent.
  • No surrender, fight to the death!
  • No superweapons, e.g. Mass Shadow Generator, Darth Nihilus.
  • Technology level is universal: blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. is all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power.
  • Use your imagination: obviously these powers existed in different time frames, but let’s just pretend.

So, the combatants: the master vs the student. Darth Traya was a master manipulator, highly knowledgeable and skilled with a lightsaber and the Force. Revan was a talented strategist, and all round exceptional Jedi. (Not Sith, this is pre-Jedi Civil War)

Traya has the forces of Darth Revan’s remnant Empire, including a legion of deadly assassins. And Revan has the forces of the Galactic Republic and the Revanchists (may I make clear that the Revan in this battle is the Revan of the Mandalorian Wars – and his power base is all that he had command over during the said conflict) But who would win? Has the student surpassed the master or is he very much still the learner?

Let the Kaggath begin!
This is a very interesting fight because Traya would (in a way) be commanding the futue of Revan's soldiers. With that in mind, Traya's troops would have a wider variety of leadership.

I'll now look at their strengths and weaknessess:

Who's army is larger/bigger/more numerous? I really don't know - I tend to think that Revan's army would be a bit bigger in this since.

What kind of troops do they have? Revan has more standard soldiers who are generally fighting for their freedom, while Kreia's army consists of men who are more battle-hardened. This appears to be a advantage for Traya (and it may be), but it could also mean that Traya's men are more twisted and morally confused - which could lead to them being turned to Revan's side.

Who's the better leader? This (to me) makes the biggest difference in the game. While Revan is more charismatic, Kreia remains very wise. Kreia would know better how to overturn soldiers, but (and this is a big deal here) she doesn't believe much in the use of soldiers/technology/material things. She is very powerful in the force, but she doesn't believe in standard warfare much at all. I feel as if she would end up putting 'all her eggs in one basket'. By this, I mean that she'd make a plan that didn't fully utilize the strength of her army. She's very dependant on the force and all her dirty plots - I feel that she's a great leader, but not a good general. Does that make since? So I'd give the generalship edge to Revan.

One-on-one duel? That's tuff. If this was Revan during his prime, I'd give it to him. But as it is, it's a coin toss.


Who do I think would win? I'm not yet sure. I'll make my vote once some other points are made.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.27.2012 , 01:59 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Darth Traya wins. Revan's biggest advantage in this battle is the Republic fleet. But just like we saw with the Harbinger, Sith Assassins can neutralize that advantage with ease. This forces Revan to mobilize troops for an attack on Malachor V, where they would be utterly crushed. Whether the Jedi there are killed by the Sith or turned by Malachor's dark energies, Revan would lose. And then, Traya turns Revan to the Dark Side.

Traya wins a sound victory.
True. But those assassins weren't taking over a ship that was under Revan's control.

I'd like to point out that since Revan would've been using those aggresive tactics, Traya wouldn't have been able to use his morals to defeat him. She feels that if one was to go to great means to sacrifice something for others, then that person is weak. Revan is not weak in this since. If one of Revan's ships was begining to be overrun, he'd probably shoot it down, regardless of how many survivers were on board.

One more thing: In Traya's opinion, looking at Revan is like "looking into the heart of the force." She believes he's very powerful and a great general. Just saying....

Question: Does Revan get his generals? Like Malak, Meetra, and Karath?

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.27.2012 , 02:00 PM | #6
Another question: Aurbere implied in his point that Traya's base would be Malachor. What do we do here? Would Malachor V be as it was DURING the Mandalorion Wars, or after? This definately needs to be addressed.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.27.2012 , 02:08 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Another question: Aurbere implied in his point that Traya's base would be Malachor. What do we do here? Would Malachor V be as it was DURING the Mandalorion Wars, or after? This definately needs to be addressed.
Malachor is a nexus of Dark Side energy and would supplant those who would walk its surface unless they have the proper mental capacity to resist its influence.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.27.2012 , 02:12 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
True. But those assassins weren't taking over a ship that was under Revan's control.

I'd like to point out that since Revan would've been using those aggresive tactics, Traya wouldn't have been able to use his morals to defeat him. She feels that if one was to go to great means to sacrifice something for others, then that person is weak. Revan is not weak in this since. If one of Revan's ships was begining to be overrun, he'd probably shoot it down, regardless of how many survivers were on board.

One more thing: In Traya's opinion, looking at Revan is like "looking into the heart of the force." She believes he's very powerful and a great general. Just saying....

Question: Does Revan get his generals? Like Malak, Meetra, and Karath?
If Revan did destroy his own ship, he just cost himself a vessel. This is inconsequential to Traya as that is the plan. Her assassins would cause confusion. Revan attacking his own ship would cost him more than it would Traya.

And as to leadership. The Sith who joined Traya recognized her as Revan's master and joined her without question. They were fiercely loyal and would not betray her unless they got some one on one time with Revan.

If Revan gets his generals, then Traya gets her greatest students. Just sayin.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.27.2012 , 02:15 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
If Revan did destroy his own ship, he just cost himself a vessel. This is inconsequential to Traya as that is the plan. Her assassins would cause confusion. Revan attacking his own ship would cost him more than it would Traya.

And as to leadership. The Sith who joined Traya recognized her as Revan's master and joined her without question. They were fiercely loyal and would not betray her unless they got some one on one time with Revan.

If Revan gets his generals, then Traya gets her greatest students. Just sayin.
Good point about the generals. But I just saw that Beni answered this question in his post. /facepalm

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.27.2012 , 02:21 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Good point about the generals. But I just saw that Beni answered this question in his post. /facepalm
I like how he listed Nihilus as a superweapon. That made me chuckle
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."