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Alacrity


BlackSpin's Avatar


BlackSpin
11.28.2012 , 02:54 PM | #11
The above poster is correct, but I'll make it simple for you:

Stack cunning > power > crit > surge (300) > then when you can't do the power/surge enhancements anymore (losing HPS after 300), do power/alacrity.

There is a ton of crit here (41% with the talent), that you could probably drop a little for power to push it over 800. Just swap out 1 or 2 of the crit/alacrity enhancements for power/alacrity. But this is pretty good: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...e-21aa7ba74d9c

On the plus side, you'd only have to swap out 4 enhancements if you decided to switch specs.

Quote: Originally Posted by Zhothon View Post
There are plenty of different views. Most disagreeing comes with the little stuff, we all tend to agree on the big numbers.

Ignore everyone else and listen to me. I have tons of healing experience (PvP and PvE). I have parsed plenty and solver equations for maximized healing.

Core things to consider:
This advice is for level 50 player (most will hold true for sub-50 tho):

Cunning: Get as much as you can. When it comes to augments, get cunning...no others.

With skills and buffs 1 cunning gives about the same healing output as 1 power, but cunning also gives you extra crit% (power does not).

Crit: Get around 36% to 40% buffed

We have some heals that give a surge boost (30% extra surge when crit happens). That makes crit very important (Injection and RN). The reality is, you will be trading between crit and power in your gear. I suggest getting crit up to these numbers then going for power. If you are slightly above or below this range, it probably wont make a huge difference in your overall healing (hps).

Power: After you are at your ideal crit range, go for as much as you can (except when you have a choice between power and cunning)

Surge: 300 minimum
Surge has the quickest slope on the curve. You are a fool if you dont get at least 180. 300 should land you somewhere near 75% surge. Hard cap is 80%. I have a surge rating above 400 (probably around 78%). I value surge more than alacrity.

Alacrity: After surge is 300, you may consider putting rest into alacrity.
Alacrity is really only useful on your Kolto Injection. It does not help KP, SP, or RN. Some value having an extra 0.1-0.2 sec shaved off the 2 second cast time (you are probably starting at 1.9 sec if you skilled 2pts in tree). Since emergency heals are typically SP spam, I dont think the extra time savings necessary. Putting your points into surge will give stronger heals on everything (even if you are experiencing major diminishing returns).

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions.

Talyndor's Avatar


Talyndor
11.28.2012 , 03:09 PM | #12
Thanks, Zoth......VERY helpful. I tweaked things as you suggested. Let's see how it pans out!

50 Gunslinger-50 Sage-50 Sentinel-50 Operative

Azaranth's Avatar


Azaranth
11.28.2012 , 04:29 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Zhothon View Post
Surge: 300 minimum
Surge has the quickest slope on the curve. You are a fool if you dont get at least 180. 300 should land you somewhere near 75% surge. Hard cap is 80%. I have a surge rating above 400 (probably around 78%). I value surge more than alacrity.
The math suggest that this should be 240 Minimum, 300 Maximum. Even if channeled heals only make up 20% of your healing actions, you're going to see more overall healing gains from Alacrity than you are from any surge past 300.

But yes.. the difference of opinion is in the small details. We all largely agree on the big picture

Vacarius's Avatar


Vacarius
11.28.2012 , 05:04 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Azaranth View Post
The math suggest that this should be 240 Minimum, 300 Maximum. Even if channeled heals only make up 20% of your healing actions, you're going to see more overall healing gains from Alacrity than you are from any surge past 300.

But yes.. the difference of opinion is in the small details. We all largely agree on the big picture
Mathematically this post is correct, simply because overall hps is increased following this (KI->SP will be your basic heal with KP stacked). I'd personally advise running mox or another parser with surge at 300 for one (optimal sustained level) and surge at 400 for another (replacing alacrity with surge essentially). If you do everything the same, you'll find overall healing higher at 300 surge than at 400. Note that alacrity is 500% better than surge for burst healing at 300 surge, so 400 surge will really hurt in reactionary fights. This will all turn into repetition so I'll leave it at that

To the OP: Ignore % values for crit/surge etc. These are basically irrelevant as the final value is determined by multiple variables. So, the important thing is the diminishing returns on the crit stat rather than the % of the crit value if that makes sense. Crit rating to 350 is generally accepted as where it should be at, irrelevant of the crit %. Most people give % values simply because you'll roughly end up there if you go for the optimal stat levels. Don't worry too much about reading the spreadsheets (I don't ) but they all come to the same conclusion for stat levels, I let people make them and just use their results.

This is essentially what you should aim for:
-Stack cunning obviously
-Crit to 350 then stack power
-Surge to 250-300 then stack alacrity

These values are the optimal mathematically for a basic rotation of KPx2->KI->SP. You probably won't see much difference if you're a bit off these values, but if you're aiming for maximum healing power these are what you should aim for.
Seikier - Operative Healer
Officer of Nightmare Council

BlackSpin's Avatar


BlackSpin
11.28.2012 , 05:18 PM | #15
Agree - BUT, the Crit DR is a long slow curve. You hit the apex (is that the right term?) around 750-800. 350 Crit is good, but more is better As long as you are where you want to be with your other stats.

It'd be interesting to see the difference between adding 42 power or 42 crit on top of 350 crit, or even 84. I don't have any calculators that can calculate overall DPS from stats.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vacarius View Post
Mathematically this post is correct, simply because overall hps is increased following this (KI->SP will be your basic heal with KP stacked). I'd personally advise running mox or another parser with surge at 300 for one (optimal sustained level) and surge at 400 for another (replacing alacrity with surge essentially). If you do everything the same, you'll find overall healing higher at 300 surge than at 400. Note that alacrity is 500% better than surge for burst healing at 300 surge, so 400 surge will really hurt in reactionary fights. This will all turn into repetition so I'll leave it at that

To the OP: Ignore % values for crit/surge etc. These are basically irrelevant as the final value is determined by multiple variables. So, the important thing is the diminishing returns on the crit stat rather than the % of the crit value if that makes sense. Crit rating to 350 is generally accepted as where it should be at, irrelevant of the crit %. Most people use give % values simply because you'll roughly end up there if you go for the optimal stat levels. Don't worry too much about reading the spreadsheets (I don't ) but they all come to the same conclusion for stat levels, I let people make them and just use their results.

This is essentially what you should aim for:
-Stack cunning obviously
-Crit to 350 then stack power
-Surge to 250-300 then stack alacrity

Vacarius's Avatar


Vacarius
11.28.2012 , 05:30 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by BlackSpin View Post
Agree - BUT, the Crit DR is a long slow curve. You hit the apex (is that the right term?) around 750-800. 350 Crit is good, but more is better As long as you are where you want to be with your other stats.

It'd be interesting to see the difference between adding 42 power or 42 crit on top of 350 crit, or even 84. I don't have any calculators that can calculate overall DPS from stats.
I suck at maths, but the reasoning goes that more crit is good, just at 350 crit more power is better (no DR on power). The actual value is probably some horrible number like 356.9128918247214 but the principle remains.

The spreadsheet I linked can calculate the difference, I get other people to use if for me though since I don't know how
Seikier - Operative Healer
Officer of Nightmare Council

Zhothon's Avatar


Zhothon
11.28.2012 , 10:20 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Azaranth View Post
The math suggest that this should be 240 Minimum, 300 Maximum. Even if channeled heals only make up 20% of your healing actions, you're going to see more overall healing gains from Alacrity than you are from any surge past 300.

But yes.. the difference of opinion is in the small details. We all largely agree on the big picture
Interesting discussion, but it really depends on the math. If we sat at a dummy and tried for max healing.....sure/maybe alacrity should factor into the equation for highest possible HPS. I really don't know.

In reality, there is a large variety of healing conditions. Maximum HPS that can be achieved on a dummy(s) doesn't mean squat to highly efficient and proper healing that is done in a WZ or raid.

Here are some numbers:
Surge/Crit Multiplier (30% additional for RN and KI not included)
0 / 50%
100 / 63.8%
200 / 71.3%
300 / 75.3%
400 / 77.5%
500 / 78.6%

Alacrity/Speed Bonus (with 4% from tree)/Kolto inj Cast Time [Approx....from looking at chart]
0 / 4% / 1.92 sec
100 / 7.5% / 1.85 sec
200 / 11% / 1.78 sec
300 / 13% / 1.74 sec

Lets think on this:

Alacrity does nothing for Kolto Probe, Surgical Probe, and RN. Inversely, you will get bigger heals on your crits with surge.

Alacrity does help cast your Kolto Injection faster. (Probably 1.7 sec vs 1.9 sec). However, if you crit, you will get more heal on the 1.9 sec cast.

Alacrity also helps DS, but at a .7 sec cast time....the help is negligible
.
So, alacrity speeds up our channeled/cast heals, but when does speed really matter? In clutch situations we will use Surgical Probe to heal (instant cast) and alacrity plays no factor in it. Once a person is over 30%, we cast Injection. Typically you are not getting smacked so hard that the 0.2 secs you shave off of injection is critical. The extra 7% from surge helps heal stronger when you crit that SP.

TLR
If Alacrity had a larger rate of return (higher percentage for points invested) I would really consider it. As it stands, its low rate of return does not beat out the benefits of putting the extra points into surge.
EBON HAWK - Guerrilla
Silentstorm <Op>

Vacarius's Avatar


Vacarius
11.29.2012 , 12:39 AM | #18
Well, in a burst situation you'd ideally be using KI or infusion if you had the chance:

SP: 2.5-4k heal, 1.5 global cooldown v KI: 1.8 second cast & 4-7.5k heal with no GCD
-essentially you get 1.5-3.5k more healing for 0.3 seconds longer
-obviously you do have to be 1.8 seconds ahead of the blow that would kill the tank here
-while my figures aren't exact, alacrity is thus incredibly useful in these situations
-alacrity is 500% better than surge at 250 for burst because of some maths nonsense

Really all we're talking about here is that last 100 hps, which when we're hiting 2100ish anyway doesn't really matter -it's more for those who care about absolutely perfecting their gear. I don't know why the maths favours alacrity, but it does so I do what it says
Seikier - Operative Healer
Officer of Nightmare Council

dlakur's Avatar


dlakur
11.29.2012 , 02:10 PM | #19
To restate what I think Zho was trying to get at in practical terms:

Ignoring energy management, think about what actually happens when you go from KI cast time of 1.8 sec to 1.7 sec. That means if you are chain casting 5 KIs in a row with zero delay between them you will come out half a second ahead. GCD is 1.5 sec so you are not actually gaining the ability to use even one more instant cast ability (you'd need 15 casts with zero delay between them for that). In actual fights with movement and energy management etc. this will never be realized -- if fights were a matter of absolute clockwork precision and every single action/movement/etc always happened at exactly the same time (down to precision of ~0.05 sec) then over the course of a whole fight all of the 0.1s could add up to a real difference in number of casts allowed. Actual fights aren't that precise, especially since latency is often in the range of 0.05 sec anyway.

The only other benefit would be quicker delivery of the heal to the target, but if you are in a situation where your target is consistently dying 0.5 seconds before you would have healed him/her then you have bigger problems than gear itemization

The takeaway: starting from Surge ~ 300 and Alacrity ~ 100... adding Surge will give a -small- benefit, adding Alac will give -zero- benefit in practical application.

Vacarius's Avatar


Vacarius
11.29.2012 , 05:35 PM | #20
This thread is going to turn into a rather lengthy argument Talyndor, so just take 300 surge then alacrity, we all seem to agree roughly on that.

Azaranth's guide on alacrity (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=553249) is really good, and I'd advise anyone interested to have a read. The one I linked earlier is detailed to the extent of being unreadable, so use his

I've quoted the bit I think is most useful:
Quote: Originally Posted by Azaranth View Post

A general way to sum up these scenarios would be:

Code:
                                                  Surge                           Alacrity
HoT-Heavy Fight                 medium impact                 low impact
Burst Heavy Fight               medium impact                 high impact
Here's some math stuff to support what I've been saying:

Since we're only looking to isolate Surge vs Alacrity, let's assume some base level stats. The following is in the ballpark of Dread Guard tier itemization:
  • 2300 Cunning
  • 900 Power
  • 1300 Tech Power
  • 350 Crit Rating

With those baseline stats, see the impact of surge:
  • With 0 surge, adding +50 more surge would increase the healing output of UWM by 2.41%
  • With 100 surge, adding +50 more surge would increase the healing output of UWM by 1.25%
  • With 200 surge, adding +50 more surge would increase the healing output of UWM by 0.66%
  • With 300 surge, adding +50 more surge would increase the healing output of UWM by 0.35%

Note how the impact of surge becomes increasingly minuscule.

Now let's note the impact of alacrity:
  • With 0 alacrity, adding +50 more alacrity would increase the healing output of UWM by 1.90%
  • With 100 alacrity, adding +50 more alacrity would increase the healing output of UWM by 1.74%
  • With 200 alacrity, adding +50 more alacrity would increase the healing output of UWM by 1.59%
  • With 300 alacrity, adding +50 more alacrity would increase the healing output of UWM by 1.45%

Note how alacrity continues to scale very well at higher levels.

Of course, you need to remember to take these numbers with a grain of salt. You very rarely cast UWM alone, and it's much more frequently followed with an Emergency Medpack, and in fights where you're primarily casting Slow-Release Medpack, alacrity has very little value. Nonetheless, these numbers can help you understand just how quickly Surge tapers off.
So the point isn't that alacrity is better than surge (it's not), it's that the diminishing returns for surge is so great that stacking alacrity is better. At 300 surge, stacking more of it is going to give you around 0.8% more healing on everything. Instead, stacking alacrity will give you around 5-8% more healing on Kolto Injection which accounts for about 30% of standard healing. Note that KI is used even more in burst fights where every bit counts (0.8% more healing in a HoT heavy fight is largely irrelevant anyway as we're usually overhealing here).

Hope this clears things up, note that the numbers don't give values for adding 50 of a stat when you have 50, 150, 250 etc which would favour alacrity even more (and thus my math at the end is only an approximation). If you want to know where these numbers are coming from, use this: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-775.html, be warned that it's a lot more complex.

Note that the point isn't to fit another heal in, it's to increase healing per second, which alacrity does better.
Seikier - Operative Healer
Officer of Nightmare Council