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Mercenary Manifesto


dejavy's Avatar


dejavy
11.22.2012 , 06:21 PM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
i do agree with you, and would much prefer to see instant Tracer Missile / Power Shot than a band-aid, compromise fix. but in all honesty, something is better than the nothing we have now
I'm afraid BW won't read it all and in 1.6 we'll get NOTHING at all. In 1.7 they'll return our cryonade 30m distance and in 2.0 they'll give us sprint. To this time Sorcs will be able to use Bazooka and Orbital strike. Marauders will simply get AOE ability with basic 15k damage, they kill everything anyways, why waste time. Am i too pessimistic?

Anysao's Avatar


Anysao
11.22.2012 , 06:35 PM | #82
I just started a mercenary, and I'm still not 100% sure what spec I should use, for most all-around utility.

I agree with you, but again, I'm new to Mercs, I'm not sure how this will affect other players, but by the sound of it, it all sounds reasonable.

So /signed.

And as a quick note: I find it that addressing strictly to Mercs doesn't seem right. Would you be offended if I wrote your summary again, and put it in commando terminology, and you can copy+paste it into your original post?
Ooh! In Elder Scrolls Online, I get magic spells and colossal PvP! That sounds cool, but one question, where do I get a lightsaber?
I will never take someone who says "EAware" seriously.
You cannot escape the Moonbanger!The Ebon Hawk Starfighter Enthusiast.

LawfulNeutral's Avatar


LawfulNeutral
11.22.2012 , 07:27 PM | #83
I know this is a bit off topic but can anyone confirm if the broken sound effects (Tracer Missile/Heatseeker Missiles) have been fixed or if they're still broken on the PTS?

Nassik's Avatar


Nassik
11.22.2012 , 07:29 PM | #84
I can't help but think that the mercenary isn't supposed to be a ranged turret, though we play that way. We don't have the survivability to remain still and that is one of our greatest weaknesses. Increasing the pushback of jet boost and adding a speed burst to it would give mercs the ability to run and gun, as was mentioned, but remember that jet boost has a cool down. While this is an excellent kiting strategy, it can't be sustained due to the cool down. So even with it, mercs would still have to stop in order to set up and attack.

Tracer Missile is our set up, more often than not. A number of our abilities are tied to its heat signatures. That, too, is a mechanic failure for this class. Since Tracer is essential for us, though, we need to be able to use it reliably. As a cast ability, Tracer is anything but reliable.


I do play melee, actually. I've got a 50 juggernaut and a 50 sentinel. Admittedly, the merc is more fun.
July 21st 2011.. The Dark Day Bioware pissed on Australia with a little yellow paragraph.

I used to be part of the Community, now I'm just Australian

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
11.22.2012 , 08:03 PM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by Nassik View Post
I can't help but think that the mercenary isn't supposed to be a ranged turret, though we play that way. We don't have the survivability to remain still and that is one of our greatest weaknesses. Increasing the pushback of jet boost and adding a speed burst to it would give mercs the ability to run and gun, as was mentioned, but remember that jet boost has a cool down. While this is an excellent kiting strategy, it can't be sustained due to the cool down. So even with it, mercs would still have to stop in order to set up and attack.

Tracer Missile is our set up, more often than not. A number of our abilities are tied to its heat signatures. That, too, is a mechanic failure for this class. Since Tracer is essential for us, though, we need to be able to use it reliably. As a cast ability, Tracer is anything but reliable.


I do play melee, actually. I've got a 50 juggernaut and a 50 sentinel. Admittedly, the merc is more fun.
That's the thing. The Gunnery/Arsenal spec requires you to stand still and cast. That is a ranged turret. But yet you're right. We don't have the defensive abilities to actually stand there and take a beating. But that isn't what a ranged turret is supposed to do. It's supposed to not get beat on at all. Snipers have what they need. Mercs/Commandos don't. Simple as that.

To be fair, Sorc/Sage has a similar spec that isn't considered viable in PVP either, so maybe commandos just aren't meant to PVP in gunnery/arsenal.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Kalifus's Avatar


Kalifus
11.22.2012 , 08:21 PM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
To be fair, Sorc/Sage has a similar spec that isn't considered viable in PVP either, so maybe commandos just aren't meant to PVP in gunnery/arsenal.
I see this statement all the time and this is utter and complete bullsh*t. No where has any dev said at any time that certain specs are for pve and others are for pvp. Each spec should be viable for both pvp or pve. All you are saying is, that it is OK for the devs to get off easy for designing a spec that is not balanced with other specs. I for one think that what Dany has proposed would work with the no cast TM/PS. A marauder could still destroy me, as well as a shadow, but I would have a chance to destroy them as well. The only people I could see that are against this would be those that would loose their training dummy.

/signed

Nassik's Avatar


Nassik
11.22.2012 , 08:27 PM | #87
I don't mind casting at all. It's a part of the class and I'm fine with that. I can even deal with our squishiness. A major issue for us, though, is that we're shut down (during our set up with Tracer) and rendered effectively useless before we've even begun. With Cash's proposed changes, we'd be able to at least finish our set-up. A modified jet boost (with a greater pushback and speed boost) would let us get a little range and an instant Tracer Missile would let us set up for an attack.

If our rotation is interrupted after that, it happens. Not only to mercs, either. It's part of the game. And furthermore, other classes would learn to adapt to this. They'd let us get off our Tracers and then Force Leap in or otherwise attack.

As a class, though, we can currently be shut down before we've even begun to fight. We can't even fend anyone off. An instant Tracer Missile would solve both issues. When pressured, we may still die, but at least we wouldn't have to just stand there and take it.
July 21st 2011.. The Dark Day Bioware pissed on Australia with a little yellow paragraph.

I used to be part of the Community, now I'm just Australian

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
11.22.2012 , 08:44 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by Kalifus View Post
I see this statement all the time and this is utter and complete bullsh*t. No where has any dev said at any time that certain specs are for pve and others are for pvp. Each spec should be viable for both pvp or pve. All you are saying is, that it is OK for the devs to get off easy for designing a spec that is not balanced with other specs. I for one think that what Dany has proposed would work with the no cast TM/PS. A marauder could still destroy me, as well as a shadow, but I would have a chance to destroy them as well. The only people I could see that are against this would be those that would loose their training dummy.

/signed

What every spec should be and what every spec is aren't the same thing. At this point I'd be happy with ONE viable DPS spec for PVP and frankly arsenal would take too much to fix it. That doesn't make it ok, but the fact that it isn't ok doesn't make it any less the reality we actually have to deal with and being stubborn and pig headed is no more effective in this respect.

Fact is that no cast times AND 30m range would be pretty game breaking. There are a million ways to exploit that.
If the real goal is to be able to get our damage out under fire there are better ways to do that.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nassik View Post
I don't mind casting at all. It's a part of the class and I'm fine with that. I can even deal with our squishiness. A major issue for us, though, is that we're shut down (during our set up with Tracer) and rendered effectively useless before we've even begun. With Cash's proposed changes, we'd be able to at least finish our set-up. A modified jet boost (with a greater pushback and speed boost) would let us get a little range and an instant Tracer Missile would let us set up for an attack.

If our rotation is interrupted after that, it happens. Not only to mercs, either. It's part of the game. And furthermore, other classes would learn to adapt to this. They'd let us get off our Tracers and then Force Leap in or otherwise attack.

As a class, though, we can currently be shut down before we've even begun to fight. We can't even fend anyone off. An instant Tracer Missile would solve both issues. When pressured, we may still die, but at least we wouldn't have to just stand there and take it.
Which is why I keep suggesting Hold the Line, or an ability similar to it. 8 seconds of immunity to leaps and interrupts with a 30s cooldown. You can get your setup done, you can even do so from range on Warriors/Knights. That's a compromise that I think keeps us balanced but would be a huge boost. The ability to kite around and smack people for 3k a pop when they can't even respond for any length of time is too far in the other direction. It would be nerfed I guarantee you. Give me a snare on demand and instant cast, a proper root, and Hold the Line. Then bad things will happen to good people.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Nassik's Avatar


Nassik
11.22.2012 , 09:00 PM | #89
A modified Hold the Line would help the merc. Doesn't it run counter to the idea of the class, though?

Hold the Line makes sense for a trooper. It's a defensive ability. A bounty hunter, though, is a hunter and aggressor. We're supposed to press the attack or we don't get paid. Admittedly, that's more of a role-playing perspective but it seems valid in the context of the game.
July 21st 2011.. The Dark Day Bioware pissed on Australia with a little yellow paragraph.

I used to be part of the Community, now I'm just Australian

Kalifus's Avatar


Kalifus
11.22.2012 , 09:02 PM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
Which is why I keep suggesting Hold the Line, or an ability similar to it. 8 seconds of immunity to leaps and interrupts with a 30s cooldown. You can get your setup done, you can even do so from range on Warriors/Knights. That's a compromise that I think keeps us balanced but would be a huge boost. The ability to kite around and smack people for 3k a pop when they can't even respond for any length of time is too far in the other direction. It would be nerfed I guarantee you. Give me a snare on demand and instant cast, a proper root, and Hold the Line. Then bad things will happen to good people.
I know that this hold the line is your baby I've seen you post it all over, but this suggestion will really do nothing in terms of making this spec viable in pvp. With in a week of putting this in, mercs and commandos from all over would still say this class is broken in pvp. Merc was dubbed as being the best defense is a good offense, and right now we have one of the worst offenses. We need a way to sustain our damage and a hold the line ability will not do it because they will just stun or mezz us during those 8 sec thus negating any positive effect it could possibly give us. The instant would give us a chance to get off our rotation and the heat build up would keep us from being OP.