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Mercenary Manifesto


cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.21.2012 , 09:29 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by dejavy View Post
Well, Ok
BTW, if it's instant, we'll be able to spam only gravs then recharge and spam only them again. How many can we spam in a row then? 10? I'm afraid we'll become arcane wow hunters then 5 gravs, demo, hib, full auto and if the target is still alive, grav the rest of your ammo and it's done. Nice gamepley.
You would be able to fire the same number of instant cast Grav Rounds in a row as you could casted ones. 1.5s cast time is equal to 1 global cooldown. Ammo/Heat management would not change.

Actually, I think that the Tracer Missile spammers would end up thinking this to be a nerf, as they would attempt to run-n-gun with Tracer Missile spam, and find that they are out of ammo/heat after 10s

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.21.2012 , 09:32 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by Nassik View Post
Making tracer missile/ power shot instant cast does not make mercs unstoppable. Unload, heatseeker, and such are still cast abilities that can be interrupted. Tracer is our set-up ability, not our main damage dealer. It would still cost heat to cast so only inexperienced players would try to spam it endlessly. And then, of course, get slaughtered once they overheat.

A merc can still be shut down and defeated with instant cast. With Cash's proposed changes we have a chance to escape and to go down fighting if it comes to it. Left unchanged, mercs are free kills that can not flee and who's feeble attempts to fight back get interrupted.

Cash is being reasonable with his suggestions. There is no request for damage buffs or even new abilities. He doesn't even ask for interrupt immunity for our cast abilities. Instead, he asks for tweaks to existing game abilities that would take minimal Dev effort to implement. These suggestions do not give mercs any undue advantage over another class. Instead, they offer the opportunity for the merc to be competitive in PvP.
I think you mean a different ability than Heatseeker Missile can be interrtuped, that one is an instant cast

But you are correct, we would still have a handful of key abilities that could be interrupted. Unload, Death From Above, Fusion Missile, the 2 heals we have, Sweeping Blasters, Concussion Missile and Flamethrower.

Nassik's Avatar


Nassik
11.21.2012 , 09:41 PM | #63
Thank you for the correction. At least my point came across.
July 21st 2011.. The Dark Day Bioware pissed on Australia with a little yellow paragraph.

I used to be part of the Community, now I'm just Australian

gluefoot's Avatar


gluefoot
11.21.2012 , 11:06 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
the reason we are not accepted in warzones is because we are the most easily shut down DPS class in the game.

zero instant abilities? hmm, there is some irony there.......

*** is instant air mez? that is not a real thing.....

a 10m mez? are you aware that we already have a 30m mez? id rather not have that bit of CC nerfed too........

the mechanics of arsenal merc is this: rely on tracer missile to buff Rail Shot, Unload, and Heatseeker Missiles. under pressure, good luck being able to stand and cast 1, let alone the 3 you really need, tracer missiles in order to be effective. and good luck proc'ing barrage when you cant get a single cast off.

the things you say we need to be viable, we dont need. i dont need an escape mechanism so that i can run away more effectively. i dont need "instant air mez", whatever the heck that is.

what i need is a way to continue being an effective DPS class. instant tracer missile/power shot actually provide utility at the same time as providing mobility. you want better kiting effectiveness? you will never, ever be effective at kiting even a little bit when relying on casted abilities. instant abilities gives you the ability to kite more effectively that we can now currently.

and, can i also point out that i suggested a ton of other things besides instant tracer missile/power shot? did you even read my entire original post, or did you just come to jump on the bandwagon of people calling me a moron for thinking that instant cast tracer missile/powershot would drastically improve Mercs effectiveness, and bring us up to the balance of other DPS classes.
About the "air mez": I was posting form my phone and auto correct was being stubborn. I meant "AOE mez".

I read your entire post, yes, and agree with the rest of your changes. All of them EXCEPT the changes to TM/GR. Sorcs are a semi-caster class. They have escape tools if at least not kiting abilities. And yes I am totally aware that we have a 30M mez called Concussive Round. I know my class in and out as I said. But that mez requires a two second cast. I'm saying I would settle for an additional 10M AOE mez as an escape tool, a la gunslinger. The 10M range would make it more balanced.

And yes, what you are saying WILL CHANGE THE CLASS MECHANIC. We are a ranged caster class, not a mobile turret of death. That would be super ******, but would get shut down by the dev team. What we need is utility and maneuverability. Whether that is kiting through instant proc casts or mere escape tools, I have no preference.

And yes, I agree with you that we are too easily locked down. Making Hold the Line a universal Trooper ability would be fabulous for PvP. It would provide us with escape and interrupt immunity. Or just making Tech Override do pretty much the same thing or give us 5 instant casts instead of one, that would be a cool change as well.

Sages have bubble mez and knockback root. They also have speed getaway. Gunslingers have charge immunity, but are less mobile since they use cover. They have 20% reduction shield for team utility as well as CC immunity for holding nodes. They also have Dodge which is short but still helps.

And when I say "Zero instants" I mean that we have none that are effective without setup. And I don't think "Irony" was the proper choice of words. inigomontoya.jpg

Commandos need something comparable to this. Not instant casts. Not even a buff to HSM/DR would fix the 15% nerf to TM/GR. I like some but not all of your ideas.

There is more than one road to Rome my friend.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.21.2012 , 11:56 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by gluefoot View Post
About the "air mez": I was posting form my phone and auto correct was being stubborn. I meant "AOE mez".

I read your entire post, yes, and agree with the rest of your changes. All of them EXCEPT the changes to TM/GR. Sorcs are a semi-caster class. They have escape tools if at least not kiting abilities. And yes I am totally aware that we have a 30M mez called Concussive Round. I know my class in and out as I said. But that mez requires a two second cast. I'm saying I would settle for an additional 10M AOE mez as an escape tool, a la gunslinger. The 10M range would make it more balanced.

And yes, what you are saying WILL CHANGE THE CLASS MECHANIC. We are a ranged caster class, not a mobile turret of death. That would be super ******, but would get shut down by the dev team. What we need is utility and maneuverability. Whether that is kiting through instant proc casts or mere escape tools, I have no preference.

And yes, I agree with you that we are too easily locked down. Making Hold the Line a universal Trooper ability would be fabulous for PvP. It would provide us with escape and interrupt immunity. Or just making Tech Override do pretty much the same thing or give us 5 instant casts instead of one, that would be a cool change as well.

Sages have bubble mez and knockback root. They also have speed getaway. Gunslingers have charge immunity, but are less mobile since they use cover. They have 20% reduction shield for team utility as well as CC immunity for holding nodes. They also have Dodge which is short but still helps.

And when I say "Zero instants" I mean that we have none that are effective without setup. And I don't think "Irony" was the proper choice of words. inigomontoya.jpg

Commandos need something comparable to this. Not instant casts. Not even a buff to HSM/DR would fix the 15% nerf to TM/GR. I like some but not all of your ideas.

There is more than one road to Rome my friend.
ok, "aoe" mez makes a lot more sense than air mez lol. and i appreciate the inigo montoya reference

i think i have a decent compromise, and based on your posts i think you will agree that it would be a good solution.

Power Surge/Tech Override becomes a 60s cooldown ability, that grants 5 charges of "Power Surge/Tech Override". Abilities with a cast time will activate instantly, and consume 1 charge of "Power Surge/Tech Override". Lasts 30s, or until all charges are consumed


i think this strikes a good balance between providing Merc with a way to fight back under pressure of melee (cant interrupt instants even with CC/knockbacks/leaps/etc), while at the same time it does not turn Merc into a run-n-gun missile spewing machine that it could be perceived as.

i would find this an acceptable solution to the problem, as Merc is not under pressure 100% of the time

edit: im going to go ahead and update the original post with that, and remove the instant TM/PS suggestion to avoid further confusion

Nassik's Avatar


Nassik
11.22.2012 , 12:12 AM | #66
The five charges of Tech Override will get you nicely through a single rotation, but then you're back to being shark bait unless that post- jet boost speed burst can get your butt out of there. Then it's hide until Tech Override comes off cool down for another go.

This is a good idea for an opening rotation, but you're back to constantly interrupted business as usual after that. There would be no sustainable DPS because you'll be constantly interrupted again and again until Tech Overrides comes off cool down. And I thought that was one of the main points of these suggestions... to allow the merc to dish out sustainable and reliable DPS while under pressure.

The instant cast TM/ PS is a better idea for us.
July 21st 2011.. The Dark Day Bioware pissed on Australia with a little yellow paragraph.

I used to be part of the Community, now I'm just Australian

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.22.2012 , 12:24 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Nassik View Post
The five charges of Tech Override will get you nicely through a single rotation, but then you're back to being shark bait unless that post- jet boost speed burst can get your butt out of there. Then it's hide until Tech Override comes off cool down for another go.

The instant cast TM/ PS is a better idea for us.
while i agree that TM / PS being instant is a more thorough solution, having multiple options for a solution is never a bad thing.

Merc isnt always under pressure, so we dont always *need* instant cast TM / PS.

Here is how I see this new ability playing out:

Youre doing your normal Merc DPS thing, hanging on the edge of the fight free-casting. Suddenly, a Sentinel decides you need to die, and he engages you. Instead of only being able to cast off of your knockback and hard stun, you will be able to use Tracer Missile 5 times (or other cast time abilities if you want). Figure that in PvP, TM hits for ~2.5-3k, that is a total of 12.5-15k damage just from those 5 abilities alone. Now, you wouldnt have to immediately burn your knockback or hard stun to gain separation in order to cast; you could use the new Power Surge, get 5 instants, and then use your utility skills to finish them off.

I think the beauty of this compromise is that it opens a very large window of group utility for Merc in general

DkSharktooth's Avatar


DkSharktooth
11.22.2012 , 12:50 AM | #68
Please explore the possibility of adding more utility/group utility to the merc and reverting 3/3 Hired Muscle back to 6% crit, and adding 3% accuracy in addition to 30% arpen for unload/railshot in the talent Advanced Targeting. The reason being that all other classes have high crit chance or auto crits or something else to compensate and have the ability to get high accuracy easy and almost auto crit so they can stack more power.

Lexlo's Avatar


Lexlo
11.22.2012 , 01:09 AM | #69
I believe 5 stacks of Instant-Tracer Missiles is a bit much.


But, I'm not against 5 stacks of using Tracer Missile while running. (Channels like normal, but allows movement during channel time).
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Nassik's Avatar


Nassik
11.22.2012 , 01:36 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
Here is how I see this new ability playing out:

Youre doing your normal Merc DPS thing, hanging on the edge of the fight free-casting. Suddenly, a Sentinel decides you need to die, and he engages you. Instead of only being able to cast off of your knockback and hard stun, you will be able to use Tracer Missile 5 times (or other cast time abilities if you want). Figure that in PvP, TM hits for ~2.5-3k, that is a total of 12.5-15k damage just from those 5 abilities alone. Now, you wouldnt have to immediately burn your knockback or hard stun to gain separation in order to cast; you could use the new Power Surge, get 5 instants, and then use your utility skills to finish them off.

I think the beauty of this compromise is that it opens a very large window of group utility for Merc in general
At this stage of the game I would argue that mercs are constantly under pressure (beings free kills). But that would likely change if we became more competitive.

Looking at the above example, let's play it out...

The sentinel Force leaps at you and begins his rotation. You pop Tech Override immediately and get off three Tracers (for the stack of five heat signatures). followed with an Unload and a power shot. If you're not dead yet and he's into his Master Strike, you can hit Heatseeker and hope it finishes him off before his master strike (uninterruptable) ends or you can pop jet boost and run. If he pursues, you're back to reliance on a cast ability. Fortunately, his Force leap is on cool down so you can breathe. You've gained enough range to get off a cast Tracer Missile. Perhaps that will finish him off.

What if you've been rooted or otherwise CCed, though? You've already popped your Tech Override and it's a long way from coming off its cool-down. You can't set up another stack of heat signatures because your Tracer is back to being cast and the sentinel is interrupting everything you've got. You watch the last of your health drain away and you find yourself in the respawn area. With all of the various CCs in SWTOR this is very likely to happen.

The above scenario is a 1v1 case, though, and those don't tend to be the norm in a war zone. That five charge Tech Override would let us burn into a single opponent as a starter but we'd never survive long enough to use it again. Add just one more opponent to the furball and you're likely dead before you finish your first rotation. In that case, you'd probably hit jet boost first to gain some space. After you've gained some range, you hit Tech Override and start attacking your first opponent. Once your first rotation is finished you're doomed. If Tracer Missile/ Power Shot were instant cast, though, you may still die, but not necessarily alone.

Modifying Tech Override to give us five instant casts provides us with an excellent opening rotation, but we're back to being dead meat until Tech Override comes off cool-down. If an encounter goes beyond a single rotation it will come down to survivability (something that mercs aren't known for). And conversely, other classes will only have to survive that first rotation before we become an easy kill.


An instant cast Tracer Missile/ Power Shot would allow mercs to keep others at range or at least enable us to fight our way out to range. It would be a steady and reliable heat signature builder that would allow us to kite. The fact that our heavy hitting abilities still require cast times prevents us from being over-powered.
July 21st 2011.. The Dark Day Bioware pissed on Australia with a little yellow paragraph.

I used to be part of the Community, now I'm just Australian