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Mercenary Manifesto


Crawelc's Avatar


Crawelc
11.21.2012 , 01:41 PM | #21
Read and /signed. Dany actually plays a merc, and is not only always queing but always posting well thought out posts on the class in the forums. I will be very curious how the actuall class change patch notes compare to this threads OP.
Imprimis <Fight><Redemption><Conquest><Super Bads><Murica Force><The Cream><RSU>
All Imprimis All the time.
GM of 3 dead guilds and counting.

Aerro's Avatar


Aerro
11.21.2012 , 02:50 PM | #22
Quote:
and can i ask why youre taking critical reactions in your build? you need to spend 7 points in combat medic in order to get that. Arsenal is a DPS class, you could be getting better benefits for that many points than .1s off your TM cast time. not to mention that .1s is literally going to change nothing.
You do realize that either 1 point in CR and one point in System Calibrations is necessary right? If you don't go that route and feel more comfortable with CR maxed out- you do that.

If you are not doing that- then you are wrong.

Also, you grab CR not for the time off of Tracer Missile... you grab it for the time off of Unload. Unload becomes a 2.8s channel which adds up over time and adds to your APM. High APM = more attacks = more DPS.

I currently Parse 1900-2100 on NiM Firebrand and Stormcaller (16). That is a mobile fight, but if you manage your abilities EFFICIENTLY you won't have to deal with a major DPS loss while moving in which you can ramp it back up when you are stationary.

Again I will explain why instant Tracers for a 15% damage reduction is terrible.

My Tracers currently crit for 3800. With the damage reduction, it will do 550-600 less per tracer. That is a MAJOR loss.
Not only that, but Tracer will now be only used on the GCD, which for instants is 1.5 seconds. Yes, its only +.1s to your cast but that is still .1s, and for someone min/maxing that is quite a bit. All of these losses for what? To be able to use 1-2 tracers while moving?

Firebrand and Stormcaller = If you are efficient, you will use the knockback to get to your shields. Yes you can do this on Nightmare. That is not even a full GCD to use a Tracer, and also the bosses take like 90% less damage. Running back to the tanks would be the only time you would need that, but with Dart, RS and HSM... (3 GCDs) you get to the tank in enough time for instant Tracers to be obsolete.

Toth and Zorn = Instant Tracers are literally unnecessary in this fight. If you're moving around to the point of needing it- you should rethink your class.

Colonel Vorgath = Instant Tracers definitely not needed.

Kephess = Instant Tracers not needed. When running between droids during the later phases, Dart makes up for it since one GCD will get you to the other side assuming your Marauders take advantage of Predation (which they should be for maximizing DPS output).


So that is current content... where Instant Tracers are not needed. The only reason people want it is for PvP, which will nerf PvE.
Arsenal DPS Guide
One of the leading Mercenaries in a World Progression Guild.

Flying-Brian's Avatar


Flying-Brian
11.21.2012 , 02:52 PM | #23
not signed.

Again, these changes do not take pve ballance into effect and the overall end result there would be less damage output.

Don't use the dev dessign mechanic, where by adding buffs or making changes to pvp play, you nerf pve play.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.21.2012 , 03:23 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Aerro View Post
You do realize that either 1 point in CR and one point in System Calibrations is necessary right? If you don't go that route and feel more comfortable with CR maxed out- you do that.

If you are not doing that- then you are wrong.

Also, you grab CR not for the time off of Tracer Missile... you grab it for the time off of Unload. Unload becomes a 2.8s channel which adds up over time and adds to your APM. High APM = more attacks = more DPS.

I currently Parse 1900-2100 on NiM Firebrand and Stormcaller (16). That is a mobile fight, but if you manage your abilities EFFICIENTLY you won't have to deal with a major DPS loss while moving in which you can ramp it back up when you are stationary.

Again I will explain why instant Tracers for a 15% damage reduction is terrible.

My Tracers currently crit for 3800. With the damage reduction, it will do 550-600 less per tracer. That is a MAJOR loss.
Not only that, but Tracer will now be only used on the GCD, which for instants is 1.5 seconds. Yes, its only +.1s to your cast but that is still .1s, and for someone min/maxing that is quite a bit. All of these losses for what? To be able to use 1-2 tracers while moving?

Firebrand and Stormcaller = If you are efficient, you will use the knockback to get to your shields. Yes you can do this on Nightmare. That is not even a full GCD to use a Tracer, and also the bosses take like 90% less damage. Running back to the tanks would be the only time you would need that, but with Dart, RS and HSM... (3 GCDs) you get to the tank in enough time for instant Tracers to be obsolete.

Toth and Zorn = Instant Tracers are literally unnecessary in this fight. If you're moving around to the point of needing it- you should rethink your class.

Colonel Vorgath = Instant Tracers definitely not needed.

Kephess = Instant Tracers not needed. When running between droids during the later phases, Dart makes up for it since one GCD will get you to the other side assuming your Marauders take advantage of Predation (which they should be for maximizing DPS output).


So that is current content... where Instant Tracers are not needed. The only reason people want it is for PvP, which will nerf PvE.
just so you know, alacrity does not lower the GCD. so it doesnt matter if you can cast Tracer Missile in .5s, you will still need to wait a full 1.5s for the GCD to go down before you can re-cast. for DPS specs, alacrity is one of the worst stats you can take. and i just tested this to make sure, and the GCD still has to tick down before you can cast again.

so alacrity has literally no impact on how quickly you can output damage. and just so you know, there are more operations than just EC, and there are plenty of mechanics were being immobile is going to get you killed.


again, these changes would not have a significant impact on PvE, no more than they would affect PvP. open your mind and understand there needs to be some give and take, and that these changes would overall offer a massive benefit to the class in both aspects of the game.
Da'ny - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

Warshades's Avatar


Warshades
11.21.2012 , 03:24 PM | #25
Your biggest issue is that it will give you to much edge in PvP.

Having the primary dmg abilities on casted rather than insta timers forces ranged to stand still. This is because some CC doesnt affect you like it does classes that do NOT worry about casted vs insta. For example your Melee toons require 4-10 range to do most dmg. Ranged require cast times for most abilities (high dmg ones)

The reason is the difference in root/snare vs interupts. Because root snares affect those that require to be close, and interupts affect those with cast times. If a merc's dmg was insta based with 30 range, they would be immune to both interupts and root/snares. This is why the changes are unwise. Name one class that can currently maximize damage from 11+range with insta cast abilities?
“Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.”

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.21.2012 , 03:31 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Warshades View Post
Your biggest issue is that it will give you to much edge in PvP.

Having the primary dmg abilities on casted rather than insta timers forces ranged to stand still. This is because some CC doesnt affect you like it does classes that do NOT worry about casted vs insta. For example your Melee toons require 4-10 range to do most dmg. Ranged require cast times for most abilities (high dmg ones)

The reason is the difference in root/snare vs interupts. Because root snares affect those that require to be close, and interupts affect those with cast times. If a merc's dmg was insta based with 30 range, they would be immune to both interupts and root/snares. This is why the changes are unwise. Name one class that can currently maximize damage from 11+range with insta cast abilities?
all CC affects range exactly the same as it affects melee.......

please explain to me how instant cast stops me from being rooted/snared? they are not even related remotely.......

sniper is massively effective at 30+m, because they are a very well designed class. they are uninterruptable and unchargeable when in cover, and have a very good full CC immunity ability. are they able to be killed by melee still? absolutely, it just requires some good play.

Merc needs a way to maintain its damage output while under pressure. Right now, if you assume equal skill and gear, Merc will lose to any melee class, except maybe operatives.
Da'ny - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

Warshades's Avatar


Warshades
11.21.2012 , 03:36 PM | #27
Your focus should be on playability not the class mechanics.

What I mean by this is that the merc has the worst ability lineup for maintaining separation with their opponent. The sniper seems the best at this, with knockback root, stun, mez, multiple defensive abilities. And their cover makes it impossible to jump to them. The sorc has knockback, stun, mez, snare, root, shield, speedburst. They are decent at kiting. But a merc has stun, mez, knockback and def ability. They got the short end of the stick. I would say that what you need is a snare on one of your primary abilities so slow the approach of an enemy, and maybe get something like a jump to friendly target or aoe snare to kite with. As it is its not your damage that hurts you, but the fact that I as a melee have no problem keeping you in range to beat on till your dead. Maintaining separation should be your focus.
“Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.”

Warshades's Avatar


Warshades
11.21.2012 , 03:38 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
all CC affects range exactly the same as it affects melee.......

please explain to me how instant cast stops me from being rooted/snared? they are not even related remotely.......

sniper is massively effective at 30+m, because they are a very well designed class. they are uninterruptable and unchargeable when in cover, and have a very good full CC immunity ability. are they able to be killed by melee still? absolutely, it just requires some good play.

Merc needs a way to maintain its damage output while under pressure. Right now, if you assume equal skill and gear, Merc will lose to any melee class, except maybe operatives.
Simple. Being rooted and snared dont prevent you from shooting someone. But it does prevent me as a melee from hitting someone greater than 4m away. Just lke interupts stop your dmg, but do nothing to mine.
“Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.”

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.21.2012 , 03:47 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Warshades View Post
Your focus should be on playability not the class mechanics.

What I mean by this is that the merc has the worst ability lineup for maintaining separation with their opponent. The sniper seems the best at this, with knockback root, stun, mez, multiple defensive abilities. And their cover makes it impossible to jump to them. The sorc has knockback, stun, mez, snare, root, shield, speedburst. They are decent at kiting. But a merc has stun, mez, knockback and def ability. They got the short end of the stick. I would say that what you need is a snare on one of your primary abilities so slow the approach of an enemy, and maybe get something like a jump to friendly target or aoe snare to kite with. As it is its not your damage that hurts you, but the fact that I as a melee have no problem keeping you in range to beat on till your dead. Maintaining separation should be your focus.
Arsenal has a 70% slow on Unload for the exact purpose of slowing melee opponents approach.

You CANNOT maintain separation with melee when you are as dependent upon casted abilities as Merc is. The best you can hope for is 1-2 casts before the melee is on you again, and that is assuming they do not have a leap cd up. Maintaining separation is only pat of the problem.

I will gladly accept the fact that melee opponents can catch up to me, if I am still allowed to maintain my DPS while running. If you stand still, you are dead against a melee opponent (unless they are terrible). And in the end, this is a team based game. There are plenty of classes that ooze utility in the form of roots/snares/CC, let them keep that role and allow Merc to do its role effectively

And my focus IS on playability..... every change I have suggested would improve the playability of Merc.
Da'ny - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

Warshades's Avatar


Warshades
11.21.2012 , 03:49 PM | #30
Here's an idea. Give mercs an ability that say lasts 10-15 secs that if any enemy becomes airborne towards you, like force leap, then your ability with catch and suspend them n air for 2-4 seconds. This would help prevent force users from constantly jumping at you but only if you use the ability before hand, like a defensive ability.

Not saying any of my ideas or good or great ideas, but simply showing how you can fix the problem without changing the mechanics of the class.
“Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.”