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Mercenary Manifesto


Nassik's Avatar


Nassik
11.24.2012 , 02:21 AM | #131
What suggestions has anyone got that don't require the addition of any new ability(s)?
I'm genuinely asking. I'm not trying to pick on anyone or put them on the spot.

The merc's best chance at improvement seems to lie in the modification of existing merc abilities. Increasing the effectiveness of our off-hand weapon is one idea (DPS).

A number of people aren't thrilled with the notion of making Tracer Missile/ Power Shot instant cast. I haven't seen anyone shoot down the modifications to jet boost or restoring the knock-back to Rocket Punch (Escapability).

Modify Energy Shield to 50% damage reduction for 30 seconds (2 minute cool-down) is an idea (Defense).

Our main issue here is still interruptability. How do you address that without creating a new ability? Reducing cast times helps but people aren't thrilled with taking the cast time to zero.
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Aerro's Avatar


Aerro
11.24.2012 , 02:26 AM | #132
A great way to avoid interrupts is 'fake casting'... which unfortunately doesn't really exist well in this game. The flow of combat seems somewhat robotic in SWTOR PvP, so doing a fake cast usually ends up in being interrupted anyways, especially when they can sit there spamming interrupt until you cast.

I don't think this is a class issue- but a mechanic with interrupting that Bioware needs to address. You shouldn't be able to spam interrupt on a target until they cast and actually hit it.

Making an ability instant cast with a major damage decrease isn't reasonable in any way. A lot of classes get locked down REALLY easily, so should they start getting instants too?
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Nassik's Avatar


Nassik
11.24.2012 , 02:35 AM | #133
As an aside, the damage reduction proposed to go with instant Tracer was removed to appease PVE players. That, I suspect, may be part of the reason that people are against an instant Tracer.
July 21st 2011.. The Dark Day Bioware pissed on Australia with a little yellow paragraph.

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cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.24.2012 , 03:37 AM | #134
Quote: Originally Posted by Aerro View Post
*snip*
alacrity is a waste of a stat. its like stacking accuracy. if your parses tell you stacking alacrity is epic win, thats fine. in PvE, where every single action is 100% scripted, thats fine. and if you dont want alacrity for Tracer Missile, what do you care if it is instant or not? Unload would still take you 2.8s to channel, increasing your APM.

i removed my damage reduction suggestion, since it drew a lot of flak. if you had read any of the posts in this thread, or even looked at the OP again, youd have seen that. so good job reposting a rant that is no longer relevant.



im about to just give up on this thread.

a stupid jet pack boost is NOT going to suddenly make Merc compete with other DPS classes. i DO NOT need to be able to run away from a fight faster. i DO NOT need some over the top defensive cooldown. i DO NOT need a damage buff. i DO NOT need some buff that will put a band-aid of the complete travesty that is the massive cast dependence that Merc has.

fix the damn class. it is not hard. if you want to complain about a loss of .1 second, or that merc will actually be able to kite LIKE A RANGED CLASS IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO, or that what i have asked would magically turn Merc into an overpowered damage dealing machine, YOU start posting actual fixes.

i swear that stupid dev post about the lack of escape mechanism is like mind-control or something. i didnt see a single person asking for more escape mechanisms for Merc until that post. suddenly its a brilliant idea! /facepalm

merc is the biggest joke in organized PvP. do you know the number 1 reason that is? its not lack of utlity. its not lack of escape mechanism. ITS OUR INABILITY TO MAINTAIN DAMAGE OUTPUT IN AN ORGANIZED SETTING! if merc was actually able to function as a ranged DPS class, using them in competitive environments would be fine. but right now, you cant. as soon as you enter combat you are interrupted, pulled, leapt to, CC'd, and rooted into oblivion. and when you have multiple melee enemies decide to focus you, good luck casting ANYTHING.

melee has the most insane advantage over range in this game that i have ever seen. ranged classes cannot kite, which is the only effective way to attempt to fight melee opponents. every time you stop to cast, your opponent gains ~10m on you. casting vs melee is just not an option.

if bioware is serious about fixing merc (they arent, which makes 99% of this discussion 100% moot) they need to make tracer missile and power shot instant. merc's DPS output can be significantly limited by 1 player hitting 1 button. it will have a minimal effect on PvE, and a massive effect on PvP where Merc needs more help than any other class.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
11.24.2012 , 03:43 AM | #135
Quote: Originally Posted by Aerro View Post
A great way to avoid interrupts is 'fake casting'... which unfortunately doesn't really exist well in this game. The flow of combat seems somewhat robotic in SWTOR PvP, so doing a fake cast usually ends up in being interrupted anyways, especially when they can sit there spamming interrupt until you cast.

I don't think this is a class issue- but a mechanic with interrupting that Bioware needs to address. You shouldn't be able to spam interrupt on a target until they cast and actually hit it.

Making an ability instant cast with a major damage decrease isn't reasonable in any way. A lot of classes get locked down REALLY easily, so should they start getting instants too?
this a fine tactic in 1v1, where you only have to deal with 1 interrupt.

unfortunately, PvP in this game occurs in a group setting, where there are quite often multiple enemies present at once. you cannot fake cast multiple times. a coordinated team will chain their interrupts and interrupt your fake cast, and then interrupt your real cast.

and i dont know what you mean by "spam interrupt on the target until they cast and actually hit it". you can waste your interrupt by using it when your target is not casting. this happened to me a lot when Merc got the interrupt, as I would forget I had it until after the cast was done and I would miss it completely. so players are not just spamming interrupt non-stop until a cast appears, they are required to actually wait until they see a cast bar to use it, or else they waste it completely.

Lexlo's Avatar


Lexlo
11.24.2012 , 04:10 AM | #136
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
It would do no more damage than 5 normally casted Tracer Missiles would. It simply allows Mercs to use Tracer Missiles while they are pressured by opponents.

Merc's largest weakness is being interrupted (not just by interrupts, buy by knockbacks/leaps/CC/etc), and a brief period of being able to use casted abilities instantly would give Merc a tool with which to fight back and try to win a fight, rather than just run away
Eh, I'm kinda iffy about it being instant. It'll turn into a 30m Sundering Strike and there won't be a counter to it outside of hoping the enemy runs out of stacks or gets stunned. If they make it guaranteed instant, I'm worried that Arsenal will become a 2-button wonder spec again.
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Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
11.24.2012 , 08:20 AM | #137
Quote: Originally Posted by Nassik View Post
The merc's best chance at improvement seems to lie in the modification of existing merc abilities. Increasing the effectiveness of our off-hand weapon is one idea (DPS).
This idea is bad idea... because Commandos doesn't have off-hand weapons.
Changes in a class must always be applied on thing that are in common with its mirror class.

Nassik's Avatar


Nassik
11.24.2012 , 08:30 AM | #138
Fair enough. It was a suggestion and I repeated it.

The previous point remains, though. Our best chance of seeing improvement is to modify existing abilities.

Using that as a base parameter, I have yet to see any suggestion(s) that offer a better solution than Cashogy's.
I'm happy to see further suggestions along those lines and I hope to see more.
July 21st 2011.. The Dark Day Bioware pissed on Australia with a little yellow paragraph.

I used to be part of the Community, now I'm just Australian

SpaniardInfinity's Avatar


SpaniardInfinity
11.24.2012 , 10:44 AM | #139
Quote: Originally Posted by Nassik View Post
A number of people aren't thrilled with the notion of making Tracer Missile/ Power Shot instant cast. I haven't seen anyone shoot down the modifications to jet boost or restoring the knock-back to Rocket Punch (Escapability).
I don't see Tracer/Grav going to be instant. It defeats the purpose, I think. And I agree that this is probably what we'll see for "escapability" unless Bioware really does something unprecedented and adds something new (although Commando is really the only class that has been missing key parts of its toolset since launch anyway; revive, healing cleanse, interrupt, etc). The second knockback on the Commando melee + root seems completely fair, especially with the prosperous state of melees and their 15 second or so leaps. A nine-second short knockback is hardly overpowering and gives the ranged class an actual way of maintaining some semblence of range (considering the lack of a ranged root).

Quote:
Modify Energy Shield to 50% damage reduction for 30 seconds (2 minute cool-down) is an idea (Defense).
The numbers here I think are a little overkill. If you took the Combat Medic set bonus, and took Combat Shield in the Combat Medic tree (at the cost of the top of the Gunnery tree), you'd have 33 seconds of interrupt immunity. The numbers I'm sure could be toyed with though. A more realistic option is a rollback of an update in I think 1.2(?) that reduced the damage reduction granted from your Charged Barrier stacks. If I'm not mistaken it used to stack up to 5 and give 15% damage reduction at max stacks -- it's since been rolled down to 5% damage reduction at peak. Maybe 15% is still too high, but I think this would help in the defensibility department, especially since there are *some* healing options at a DPS' disposal.

Quote:
Our main issue here is still interruptability. How do you address that without creating a new ability? Reducing cast times helps but people aren't thrilled with taking the cast time to zero.
First of all, Full Auto/Unload should be un-interruptable at all times like Master Strike/Ravage.

Beyond that, you could make a skill in the tree that lowers the cooldown globally or actively of Tech Override by 1.5 seconds every time you take damage or whatever. While I'd like to see Tech Override made more a part of the healer's toolset, I think Gunnery needs it much more desperately. What I'd love to see the class get is a "Last Stand"-type of proc that takes effect at like 25% HP remaining or less and makes all of your casts immune to interruption as long as your HP remains that low.
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Bluntron's Avatar


Bluntron
11.24.2012 , 11:24 AM | #140
As I have mentioned in other threads. All I really ask for a Pyro Merc is to be able to kite ANY class. I don't need another ability on my quickbars, I have enough thank you. Either something that makes my already "Meh" kiting be effective like instant cast powershot....Or something buffing my slow or knockback (that can already be resisted by jedi LOL). I am not asking for 1v1 balances in a game that involves groups of people at one time. We keep asking for that we are going to get another WoW (All classes being able to do little bit of everything, thus all classes being the same just with a different paint job.) I am asking for a way to be more evasive with what I ALREADY have. We don't need more toys, we just a fix on our current toys, If they insist that we be as squishy as puddling then we need to be able to break away and be more EFFECTIVELY evasive. We DON'T need another CD to fix this, just a simple modify to our current ones. Its bad enough that the high populated servers have a "Hiccup" which is literally...killing me.