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Problems with the solo queue idea....

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Problems with the solo queue idea....

CharterMonkKent's Avatar


CharterMonkKent
11.20.2012 , 12:13 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
I also like the idea of putting high grade crafting materials in areas for open world. Simplest thing ever that would help promote it.
agree. remember fighting over kryat dragons in SWG (not sure if you played)? Their pearls made great saber parts, and since weapons/armor disintegrate with use everyone needed more materials. That was always fun for PvP.
Wnk & Zlk & Knk & Xlk & Znk & Ynk & Tnk & Qnk & Chart
<Nothing Personal>
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cycao's Avatar


cycao
11.20.2012 , 12:15 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by CharterMonkKent View Post
agree. remember fighting over kryat dragons in SWG (not sure if you played)? Their pearls made great saber parts, and since weapons/armor disintegrate with use everyone needed more materials. That was always fun for PvP.
LoL yes. On my old server Lowca we had a guild CKE (citizens of Krayts End) and they placed there town pretty much on top of the spawn area and they were a terrific PvP guild which made things fun to go krayt hunting.

Varinm's Avatar


Varinm
11.20.2012 , 12:28 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
...The developers have stated time and time again that they want to promote community and team work. This idea completely goes against that idea.
I agree with the idea of promoting community. I am opposed to preventing guilds & friends from playing together (or at least making it more difficult). However, I am also opposed to forcing hardcore solo players to group or shop for a guild.

I have floated this idea before, but I think a neat solution would be a Premade Finder. When you are grouped before & after a WZ (as in a guild premade), you have the opportunity to communicate your preferences, do after-action reviews, and (perhaps most important) teach newer or less-PVP-experienced players some of the strategies or tactics they might not be familiar with.

Right now, you see a lot of ALL CAPS tutorials in the heat of a WZ, and far too many conflicting strategies ("2 snow, 6 mid" .... "NO we should do 3 snow and 5 grass."... "NO....") being hashed out while less experienced PUGers run one-at-a-time into a mob of the opposing faction.

Granted, some premades are bad, but over time they have the opportunity to learn to work together and improve as a team. A PUG never has this opportunity.

Tyrias's Avatar


Tyrias
11.20.2012 , 12:29 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
LoL yes. On my old server Lowca we had a guild CKE (citizens of Krayts End) and they placed there town pretty much on top of the spawn area and they were a terrific PvP guild which made things fun to go krayt hunting.
I don't really agree with most of this thread (sorry, I just disagree, there's no point rehashing the same stale, old discussion points), and I'm not really a fan of Open World Ganking... which is what usually happen to open world PvP when there is any sort of population imbalance. Sadly, that's a situation not exactly unknown in SWTOR.

Setting that aside however, sticking this sort of crafting material in a free-for-all PvP zone could be a very interesting step forward. I don't think I've seen a game that has had truly engaging World PvP that has had just two factions who fight against each other.

Providing a common area for groups/guilds to fight over visible rewards (preferably something that will reduce a grind, but not provide any/much of a statiscal advantage over people who just Warzone to get their PvP gear) will encourage groups to team up to kill a bigger team, then stab each other in the back, or whatever. It would keep things fresher, and make the ability to game the system (as happened in Illum) harder to accomplish due to more variables.
"If you've got a problem, stick a worm in it".

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
11.20.2012 , 12:34 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
Because the current system is pushing new people away, hence not building a community. So you are saying you support building a community but only with a system that clearly shows that it doesn't build a community. You are contradicting yourself with your own statements.

The current state of PVP doesn't welcome new blood. You even admit to that. If you don't get new blood, then you lose potential groups forming, which in turn lowers the chance of a competitive team from ever forming.
I hope I don't have to repeat this again but here it goes...

I'm not saying a change wouldn't be a good thing... I just don't believe this change would be beneifical. I think it would hurt the current state of PvP more than it would help it. And if you ask me the reasons why I'm going to kick a kitten.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
11.20.2012 , 12:35 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
Because the current system is pushing new people away, hence not building a community. So you are saying you support building a community but only with a system that clearly shows that it doesn't build a community. You are contradicting yourself with your own statements.

The current state of PVP doesn't welcome new blood. You even admit to that. If you don't get new blood, then you lose potential groups forming, which in turn lowers the chance of a competitive team from ever forming.

If you want to fix that "well what if 3 people want to join..." then just make it groups 4 or groups of 2. That's easy, as far as DC's go...well we deal with that now and sometimes that spot never gets filled. So don't act like solo brackets will magically make DC's a burden for everyone, since it's happening in current warzones.

And finally, if solo queue players join a pvp match with other solo players, then they are put on a team. They might see each other often and eventually become friends whom may group up together for pvp. Hence building the community. So yes in fact Solo bracket queue is group play since well...you are still playing with others in a group.
I suppose the disagreement comes from my inability to understand your correlation between new blood and queuing solo. What is to say that players aren't coming to the game with 2 or 3 of their friends (it's free to everyone). Would they be inclined to continue queuing together if they had to play premades all the time as many claim they are forced to do now? Your theory that new players who queue solo don't enjoy being thoroughly beaten by premades is predicated on the hypothesis that they are losing because of the premade. Would they feel this way if they played against a premade of players on their first 50 in mostly recruit gear? Probably not, unless the solo person simply lacks the skill to compete (in which case no change will resolve the issue). The only thing that would truly balance out matches is some type of rating system as simply queuing together is not a determination of skill. That way, those who may have a gear disadvantage can play with similarly geared players (or groups) or overgeared players (or groups) with less skill. No one ever has to know their rating, this isn't meant to be like ranked warzones, but it is what you are actually advocating for in a roundabout way. The only reason to support a solo queue over a rating system is that you don't truly want competition, you just want the more veteran players (those who have been here longer tend to group more often, not always) in a separate queue. Which, if that is the case, would be extremely contradictory to your posts.

As to your final statement, it is no different than the way things are today. If you go into a warzone alone and find someone (or some group) in there that you enjoy playing with, then group up. No one says you have to stay queued solo after a warzone or that you have to only group with people you already know. And with a solo queue you would never see those people who always queue as a group of 4, so it would not change things in any way other than you would NEVER see those people.
I have opinions and stuff

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
11.20.2012 , 12:38 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by CharterMonkKent View Post
agree. remember fighting over kryat dragons in SWG (not sure if you played)? Their pearls made great saber parts, and since weapons/armor disintegrate with use everyone needed more materials. That was always fun for PvP.
I never got into SWG... was too hooked on Planetside 1.

Quote: Originally Posted by Varinm View Post
I agree with the idea of promoting community. I am opposed to preventing guilds & friends from playing together (or at least making it more difficult). However, I am also opposed to forcing hardcore solo players to group or shop for a guild.

I have floated this idea before, but I think a neat solution would be a Premade Finder. When you are grouped before & after a WZ (as in a guild premade), you have the opportunity to communicate your preferences, do after-action reviews, and (perhaps most important) teach newer or less-PVP-experienced players some of the strategies or tactics they might not be familiar with.
I like it... much of the advantage a pre-made has going into the war zone is very often team composition. Which you obviously don't get from solo queuing. I'm just not sure how it could be implemented without affecting certain players queue times. Would be a pretty quick pop for tanks and heals but DPS would get the short end of the stick most likely.

I think many of the supporters of the solo bracket would be surprised how lop sided games would still be because of composition alone and just another reason I fail to see it working.

Pvtcarnage's Avatar


Pvtcarnage
11.20.2012 , 12:47 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
Ah, but you've never said anything about separating solo and group. I thought you spoke for solo queue in ranked that would never happen.

My point was that it's not more social to group queue than to solo queue. Both promote and limit social in their own way.
Idea fails... Most solo que folks are anti social and never bother to communicate or at least pay attention to whats going on. Key word MOST and happens to be the Main reason people find other team players to group with. So no it does not mean more social to solo.
"Equality is a perversion of the natural order!…It binds the strong to the weak. They [the weak] become anchors that drag the exceptional down to mediocrity. Individuals destined and deserving of greatness have it denied them.
-Darth Bane

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
11.20.2012 , 12:49 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
I hope I don't have to repeat this again but here it goes...

I'm not saying a change wouldn't be a good thing... I just don't believe this change would be beneifical. I think it would hurt the current state of PvP more than it would help it. And if you ask me the reasons why I'm going to kick a kitten.
So you claim you want to talk about this but if someone...well...talks to you about it but disagrees with you then you will throw a tantrum. How is that going to help any form of discussion from happening?

I only agree with you on one part that cross servers queues are a good thing, since it brings in more high end competition but unless you want to keep fighting(and probably losing) to the same 1-2 teams then you need a solo bracket to lure in new people.

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
11.20.2012 , 12:52 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
So you claim you want to talk about this but if someone...well...talks to you about it but disagrees with you then you will throw a tantrum. How is that going to help any form of discussion from happening?
No... I'm tired of repeating myself... it's in the oringal post and in about 3 other threads that we have both commented on.

I'm tired of the solo queue band wagon completely ingoring any point made of why it isn't a good thing and assume that I don't want change because I like rolling pugs. It's the complete opposite and I'm annoyed that I've had to repeat the reasons why as many times as I have already.

Reading comprehension on these forums is something to be desired.