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Problems with the solo queue idea....

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Problems with the solo queue idea....

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
11.20.2012 , 10:49 AM | #1
This is just a list of problems I see with the idea and of course just my opinion. Now let's get this started so we can have a mature and friendly debate. No... just kidding... we all know that won't happen.

1. It will never happen: The developers have stated time and time again that they want to promote community and team work. This idea completely goes against that idea.

2. Populations: Even if it did happen, I don't believe most servers have a strong enough population to support the idea without drastically affecting queue times. Populations are better now with the F2P players, but most of those players will not hit 50 for a few weeks, we will not see many of them in WZ's with the limited amount of matches they get and we'll likely see another population drop when the novelty wears off.

3. It will not help the problem: Most of the supporters of the solo queue idea want it because they're tired of being "rolled" by pre-mades. This idea won't help that. If you are solo queuing, you are near as likely to have a pre-made on your team as you to be up against one. Besides that... it decreases both teams chances of having anything close to proper team composition. Which would just in turn create more imbalance within each match.

4. Not all pre-mades are good: There are several guilds on just my server alone that make me cringe when we're teamed with them. The idea that all pre-mades are composed of face rolling gods is ridiculous. There are probably more bad pre-mades than good ones.

5. It does not promote competitiveness: Rated WZ's are slow enough currently with little incentive to join them. We have a very casual PvP community who do not strive to be better players already. Personally I hate the idea of a bracket that would cater to mediocracy and gives players no incentive to improve or become more competitive.

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The one thing that most can agree on is that for MOST fresh 50's the PvP experience can be frustrating. While I'm personally fine with the system as is. Many fresh 50's don't enjoy the fresh 50 grind and I definitely don't think the F2P'ers who enjoy PvP will either, especially with limited play time. However a solo queue will not solve the problem or promote subscriptions. Personally, I think THIS would be a better idea. Maybe not perfect... but I definitely don't think a solo queue bracket would be a positive change or even pacify those who support it. It would likely be a just as frustrating experience for those who are struggling against pre-mades.

cycao's Avatar


cycao
11.20.2012 , 10:53 AM | #2
I agree with everything. Without cross server queues there is no way this could work. Also this game encourages grouping this is an MMO after all.

I think they should so something in terms of a recruit bracket...even not putting a cap on it just hitting 50 you get to play X amount of games with all the others, giving you time to gear up and then after that time period its time for a higher level of play.

jgoldsack's Avatar


jgoldsack
11.20.2012 , 10:58 AM | #3
Agree.

I lost count of the number of "pre-mades" I have gone up against solo-queuing with 7 other pugs, and we ahve steamrolled them.

It is true that there are pre-mades I hate to go up against and when I do encounter them, I more or less chalk up a loss, but once in a while my pug group can pull off a win.

System is working as intended.
On the Internet, you can be anything you want. It is strange so many people choose to be stupid.

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
11.20.2012 , 11:02 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
I think they should so something in terms of a recruit bracket...even not putting a cap on it just hitting 50 you get to play X amount of games with all the others, giving you time to gear up and then after that time period its time for a higher level of play.
Yeah... at first and maybe I didn't edit the old thread but said it in the comments... but at first I thought it would be a better idea to have unlimited play in recruit bracket to cater to the 'normalized PvP' idea. But after a few things being pointed out I think a limit is a much better idea and having it unlimited would be bad for the base design of this game.

jgoldsack's Avatar


jgoldsack
11.20.2012 , 11:03 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
I agree with everything. Without cross server queues there is no way this could work. Also this game encourages grouping this is an MMO after all.

I think they should so something in terms of a recruit bracket...even not putting a cap on it just hitting 50 you get to play X amount of games with all the others, giving you time to gear up and then after that time period its time for a higher level of play.
I really think that they need to bring back the tie of gear to valor ranks, and remove the requirement to have previous tier to get new gear. And with that, separate out the brackets at 50 based on this:

Valor 0-60 is one bracket (Recruit - full BM)
Valor 61-100 is one bracket (full BM - Full WH)

When they add in the rest of the EWH gear, then they modify:

Valor 61-80 is one bracket (full BM - Full WH)
Valor 81-100 is one bracket (full WH - Full EWH)

or something. This way people who are freshly starting out in PvP are not continually getting steamrolled by those fully geared and min/maxed players.

The downside for this however is those players who level purely via PvP... they will end up at a higher ranka nd higher bracket once they hit 50. However at the same time, they can immediately jump into buying the higher level gear.
On the Internet, you can be anything you want. It is strange so many people choose to be stupid.

BoDiE's Avatar


BoDiE
11.20.2012 , 11:04 AM | #6
By joining the queue, you are effectively grouping so your logic fails based around the argument that its an MMO and you are supposed to group. I hate being made to warzone to get some pvp as I much prefer open world. That being said I have no issues with people wanting to group or not and punishing solo players, many of whom subscribe is completely unfair.
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cycao's Avatar


cycao
11.20.2012 , 11:14 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by jgoldsack View Post
I really think that they need to bring back the tie of gear to valor ranks, and remove the requirement to have previous tier to get new gear. And with that, separate out the brackets at 50 based on this:

Valor 0-60 is one bracket (Recruit - full BM)
Valor 61-100 is one bracket (full BM - Full WH)

When they add in the rest of the EWH gear, then they modify:

Valor 61-80 is one bracket (full BM - Full WH)
Valor 81-100 is one bracket (full WH - Full EWH)

or something. This way people who are freshly starting out in PvP are not continually getting steamrolled by those fully geared and min/maxed players.

The downside for this however is those players who level purely via PvP... they will end up at a higher ranka nd higher bracket once they hit 50. However at the same time, they can immediately jump into buying the higher level gear.
The only problem I see with that is for someone who has a 50 waiting to queue and gets his 5 pieces BoL gear sent over to him he can at least now get that and his MH/OH war hero gear and rest BM so that could be problematic with bracketing off of Valor and not expertise. This is assuming any bracketing system could work at all.

Pyrinoos's Avatar


Pyrinoos
11.20.2012 , 11:19 AM | #8
not to mention you'd have some idiot use the new valor boosts to get into a higher bracket to fast and still be in recruit or worse.... Then they'd come on here and qq endlessly....
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jgoldsack's Avatar


jgoldsack
11.20.2012 , 11:21 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Pyrinoos View Post
not to mention you'd have some idiot use the new valor boosts to get into a higher bracket to fast and still be in recruit or worse.... Then they'd come on here and qq endlessly....
As opposed to what they do now?
On the Internet, you can be anything you want. It is strange so many people choose to be stupid.

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
11.20.2012 , 11:25 AM | #10
I think my biggest issues with a solo queue outside of what is already in this thread are this:

1) For those advocating ranked only for groups: ranked is not meant for groups, it is meant for high level teams, much like a top tier ops group. Teams still need a way to play together when everyone isn't online (your sm ops with PUGs and FPS) or when you simply have a friend or two you want to group with while playing. Adding a solo queue without at least suggesting a group queue outside of ranked shows a serious lack of concern for the population as a whole and reflects a mindset focused solely on what you want.

For everyone who just wants the queues separate:

2) Group queues will turn into what ranked is now where groups choose not to join because of the level of coordination they will face. This certainly doesn't foster a community of competition and teamwork. A solo queue only serves to embrace the 1v1 deathmatch mentality and will continue to be as imbalanced as it is now. It also does not help with being social and meeting new people as some have claimed. If you were meeting people in PUG warzones now, wouldn't you be grouping with them later, thus negating the need for a solo queue at all?

3) Logistics are suspect. How do you match a group of 3 in a group only queue? You can't get a PUG since it's the group queue, so do they have to wait until another 3 man team queues up to get in? Are they forced to kick someone out or pick up another person? None of these options is an enjoyable experience for the individuals involved.

4) Groups will still not be even in either queue. You will still get rolled by better skilled and geared players in solo queue without any type of matchmaking system (which is what you really want anyway) just as more casual groups will get rolled by more competitive groups in the group queue. You will also end up with one team having 2 groups of 4 and the other having 4 groups of 2. Is this imbalance still considered ok?

It still, ultimately, comes down to population but that is not the only reason that a solo queue will not resolve the issues that have been brought up by those advocating for it. No matter how large a population we end up building, if we continue to break down the queues for each subset of player, everyone will end up in their own queue. It takes teamwork to win this game, whether you are in a group or queuing solo. Why continue frustrating yourself by ALWAYS queuing solo rather than grouping with people who you enjoy playing with? Even when I am in a group, I can tell you that 95% of the chat going on has absolutely NOTHING to do with the objectives of the warzone. There is no more communication than what could be achieved through typing. But I enjoy both my wins and losses far more playing with my friends than I do in queue alone (perhaps group drinking helps as well).

***Apologies for ranting in your thread
I have opinions and stuff